Goorj To Dragons

[Spike]

Rumor doing the rounds...
Any truth to this?
I know Cowan is close with Brian.
Jason Smith might play his final year or 2 at South if my info is correct..!
Bring those guys over and you will get fans.

Only a rumor at this stage, but it is a big one, anyone else shed any light on it?

[An5w3r]

I can tell you one thing, I feel VERY sorry for whoever takes over from Goorjian when he does leave Sydney.....

[hendrix]

I can tell you one thing, I feel VERY sorry for whoever takes over from Goorjian when he does leave Sydney.....

why is that?

[JWC]

As a kings fan, not sure I could take BG's departure, might have to throw in the towel. He has become the heart and soul of the Kings, and am sure the management will do what ever they can to keep him..

If he were to go and the 2 league power houses in Basketball were in melbourne, then I think the league in the rest of OZ could just dwindle away.

Don't do it Gorge!!

[Julian]

If he were to go and the 2 league power houses in Basketball were in melbourne, then I think the league in the rest of OZ could just dwindle away.
:lol:

[curious]

In the early days of ther Dragons history it was suggested that after a few seasons the Dragons would try and lure Goorjian to them.
BG is still under contract however.
Of course the Kings need to be around next season for him to fill that contract. ;)

[franny]

In the early days of ther Dragons history it was suggested that after a few seasons the Dragons would try and lure Goorjian to them.
BG is still under contract however.
Of course the Kings need to be around next season for him to fill that contract. ;)

Contract shmontract. I think Goorj would love to come back to Melbourne if the circumstances were right. Would be a huge coup for the Dragons. He'd bring a lot with him and it'd be awesome for the cross-town rivalry. Especially if the Kings don't happen to win the championship this season.

[gangsta boo]

Of course the Kings need to be around next season for him to fill that contract. ;)

So why won't they be around next season?

[Knox_team]

now that would be exciting

[DoubleA]

As a Tigers fan, there is nothing I want more than Goorjian/Smith/Sheridan, hell as many Magicians/Titans as they can get come back to Melbourne.

[curious]

Of course the Kings need to be around next season for him to fill that contract. ;)
So why won't they be around next season?
What little I know is that earlier this season. Pre, pre season, the Kings had cash flow problems and were very close to folding.
With the 'history' of the current owner I don't think much has changed.
Firepower is the naming rights sponsor of the Kings.
The Firepower owner, owns the Kings.
He allegedly got lumped with a lot of debt left by the previous owners, that took a lot of his ca$h to sort out. Whilst Forepower might hacve a lot of maney, it doesn't mean that their owner has a lot of Ca$h.
Limited information at this stage, but I would suggest even now that things are still shaky.
The Dragons could of course pay out Goorjians contract and hire him.
They have lost a lot of money already, and I would guess that to do that would be but a small blip on the Dragons 'money all ready 'lost' radar.
Goorj would attract a huge amount of interest back in Melbourne again.

[gangsta boo]

Its a wonder the Kings are still around then I guess with how dodgy Firepower are *

Still see a lot of the old owners going to games every week but they probably enjoy just being able to watch and not put their hands in their pockets anymore

I'd hope Goorj doesn't leave to head to another NBL club because the way it is now I'd say Sydney would be fucked without him



* according to all those SMH articles last year

[Dunkin' Dan]

Pretty sensible move by the Dragons if this is true.
If I had a bunch of cash to throw around and was serious about getting to a high level quickly, Goorj would probably be my first target too.

[curious]

Players going to play for the South Boomers. Love it. :lol:

[Lemon Custard]

Still see a lot of the old owners going to games every week but they probably enjoy just being able to watch and not put their hands in their pockets anymore


What's funny, is that they all sit in the corporate section, where the Firepower guys who were doing the rounds and worrying us all with their attitude at the end of last season and the beginning of this one haven't shown their faces in a long long time. Actually, around the time when the Macquarie Sports Logo started doing the rounds.. Hmmm.

[phill]

If BG leaves the Kings, the Kings are gone! FFS the Kings have won 3 Championships, 1 time Grand Finalist and a Semi Final apperance and still cant draw a crowd. Imagine if they performed like the Razorbacks, the Kings would struggle to pull a crowd of 1,000.

[meg]

If that's the case, I will expect to hear how fickle the Kings fans are...EVERY WEEK!! :P

[Lemon Custard]

If BG leaves the Kings, the Kings are gone! FFS the Kings have won 3 Championships, 1 time Grand Finalist and a Semi Final apperance and still cant draw a crowd. Imagine if they performed like the Razorbacks, the Kings would struggle to pull a crowd of 1,000.

Well. They did alright before Brian came. Despite never making it past the Semis and being generally terrible, so who knows.

[phill]

Meg, it's not a question of being fickle. It's the state of basketball in this city. The Kings are on top of the ladder by 4 games. You can buy a ticket in good seats for $10 a game. It is without doubt outstanding value for money. It's not about the Kings and the costs of going to a game. The fact is no one gives a sh#t about basketball anymore.

[curious]

I certainly remebr the heady days of the 90's.
Never ever heard a louder crowd.
A Gaze says the semi Final there was the loudest crowd he has ever heard anywhere in the world.

[Glenn]

If that's the case, I will expect to hear how fickle the Kings fans are...EVERY WEEK!! :P

Doesn't that happen already :wink:

[misty hyman]

The fact is no one gives a sh#t about basketball anymore. in Sydney.

[Daevo]

If BG leaves the Kings, the Kings are gone! FFS the Kings have won 3 Championships, 1 time Grand Finalist and a Semi Final apperance and still cant draw a crowd. Imagine if they performed like the Razorbacks, the Kings would struggle to pull a crowd of 1,000.
....like the Razorbacks :wink:

I agree though, nobody gives a crap about basketball in Sydney except a few diehards

[Nerf Herder]

So does that mean we have an opening for a Player/Coach? :D

But seriously though... I wouldn't want Goorj to leave and I'd hate to see the state of the club without as many wins under their belt, but the crowds really started to drop off once we won our first championship and each championship they dropped off more... We don't REALLY love the underdog THAT much that the fans dislike success, surely? If we can combine the crowds of the 90s with the results of the 0's it will be magic...

Once Shane left, we didn't have anyone the public was familiar with... You think back to the franchise players back in the 90s and people knew who they were... I even did and I lived up the other end of the state... If we keep getting good imports and losing them, waht chance do we have of playing an exciting brand of basketball that fans actually WANT to watch? You hear people ooh and ahh when Dontaye does his magic... we NEED to keep players like him and have them be known to be Kings players...

But I digress... I don't want to lose Goorj (he's contracted to 2009, yes?), but it's really the best thing that the Dragons could do... Look at the Kings defensive output before he came... from worst to best in one season... If anyone can fix the defensive problems of the Dragons, it's BG...

[Lemon Custard]

So does that mean we have an opening for a Player/Coach? :D

BJ!!

But seriously. I agree. I don't want to lose Goorj. I don't know what I'd do if he wasn't pacing the sidelines, popping a few veins and sculling his Diet Coke. It's become quite a comforting image...

[Da Houndawg #55]

I can tell you one thing, I feel VERY sorry for whoever takes over from Goorjian when he does leave Sydney.....
What is Wright doing these days?

[Skindog the Hawk]

I can tell you one thing, I feel VERY sorry for whoever takes over from Goorjian when he does leave Sydney.....
What is Wright doing these days?
Voldemort apparently will have next season free... :lol: 8)

[bear]

BGs style of coaching has little attraction for the casual fan. While I hate his overall style, as a "diehard" fan I have always appreciated his defensive genius.

Of course this reputation for defensive genius is matched by an offensive ineptitude that was overcome at the Kings with excellent imports initially and now a deep team that can all shoot the 3 ball. The constant is the control BG influences over the timing and pace of the offence, using the clock and always setting defensively.

This, however, is not an exciting style of basketball, and comined with the import merry-go-round, as mentioned by another poster, it means fans are left with an unattractive game. It has obviously been a hard sell in the Sydney market and if the team doesn't win this year it seems possible they could move in another direction, particularly if the coach also wants out.

[Nerf Herder]

But seriously. I agree. I don't want to lose Goorj. I don't know what I'd do if he wasn't pacing the sidelines, popping a few veins and sculling his Diet Coke. It's become quite a comforting image...
yeah, it's like he's been here forever... Although I DO remember the other couple (:S) but you never know... this could just be the rumour mill wagging it's fat mouth... *crosses fingers*

Totally agree with bear though... But what would you rather? A championship winning team with a (if we're lucky) half-filled stadium, or a packed stadium to watch your team lose? I don't know about you, but when we lose at home it's like someone telling me Santa Clause isn't real... it's like "what? we can lose at HOME? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Bouncer]

But what would you rather? A championship winning team with a (if we're lucky) half-filled stadium, or a packed stadium to watch your team lose?

A half full SEC is 5,000 people. I don't think the 2 (winning and lower crowds) are at all related. The Sydney crowd has lots of choices, plenty of things to do and see. If they think the game is going to be a blow out (eg; Dragons and Hawks) and it's a Wednesday night then you aren't going to get a crowd, no matter who the coach is. On a Saturday night, no Fox coverage, with some competition on offer (Bullets or Tigers) then the place is way more than half full. As it will be for the finals, because the crowd expects a contest.

It is worthwhile keeping in mind that Firepower (the company) isn't the owner of the Kings, take note of the NBL rules, that the previous owners still have an interest, that there are (in my understanding) default and buy back clauses in the sale contract. Firepower's success or otherwise would only have the direct effect of losing a sponsor and one of the current major sponsors has expressed an interest in moving up to naming rights sponsor should that become available.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it's all fine and dandy, because it isn't. But, on the other hand, it's not as bleak as some would have you believe. There is only one thing we, as fans, can do about it, GET ALONG TO AS MANY GAMES AS WE CAN, it's that simple.

[Glenn]

But what would you rather? A championship winning team with a (if we're lucky) half-filled stadium, or a packed stadium to watch your team lose?



It is worthwhile keeping in mind that Firepower (the company) isn't the owner of the Kings, take note of the NBL rules, that the previous owners still have an interest, that there are (in my understanding) default and buy back clauses in the sale contract. Firepower's success or otherwise would only have the direct effect of losing a sponsor and one of the current major sponsors has expressed an interest in moving up to naming rights sponsor should that become available.



The dogfood.com.au Sydney Kings. :shock: :lol:

[Anfield]

This, however, is not an exciting style of basketball, and comined with the import merry-go-round, as mentioned by another poster, it means fans are left with an unattractive game. It has obviously been a hard sell in the Sydney market and if the team doesn't win this year it seems possible they could move in another direction, particularly if the coach also wants out.
I'd take boring winning basketball over attractive high scoring losing basketball. Case in point, South Dragons! The club has built itself on the image of being marketable, flashy (with all the flames etc) and high scoring basketball hence the appointment of Price and Heal as head coaches. Also the make of their roster both last season and particularly this season has been totally focussed on offence, not defence, and trust me, watching a losing team play is not fun. Winning basketball is what people want to see. If it is to be 67-65 scorelines, then so be it. Better than losing 150-100. Goorjian would surely bring that mentality to the Dragons. Let's hope Cowan can make it happen.

[Daevo]

This, however, is not an exciting style of basketball, and comined with the import merry-go-round, as mentioned by another poster, it means fans are left with an unattractive game. It has obviously been a hard sell in the Sydney market and if the team doesn't win this year it seems possible they could move in another direction, particularly if the coach also wants out.
I'd take boring winning basketball over attractive high scoring losing basketball. Case in point, South Dragons! The club has built itself on the image of being marketable, flashy (with all the flames etc) and high scoring basketball hence the appointment of Price and Heal as head coaches. Also the make of their roster both last season and particularly this season has been totally focussed on offence, not defence, and trust me, watching a losing team play is not fun. Winning basketball is what people want to see. If it is to be 67-65 scorelines, then so be it. Better than losing 150-100. Goorjian would surely bring that mentality to the Dragons. Let's hope Cowan can make it happen.

Well said. Somebody said much the same thing about the Kings' boring style of basketball before the start of the season & how their cross-town rivals were going to have a young, fit team who would play an open, fast & intense game that would thrill the crowds. Well those crowds never came either. So if some want to blame the coaching or the style of game being played for poor crowds at Kings games then perhaps they should turn their attention up the road a few km & ask why with a totally different system in place, the crowds are even smaller.

This isn't the 1st time a successful Sydney team has been accused of playing a boring style of game....does anybody remember the controversy over the Swans' style of play a few years ago (I think it was the year they won the premiership)? The fact is though that boring or not, the fans showed up in droves to watch the Swans. That was because the club was marketed with a constant stream of promotion. I'm not an AFL fan & never watch the sport yet even I could name half a dozen Swans players & their coach without even trying. I think you'd struggle to find many people in Sydney who could name a single Kings player (in fact I'd bet Heal would come up #1 which is a story in itself), let alone knowing or caring who their coach was or what style of game they played.

The fact is that the NBL is currently preaching only to the choir in Sydney so what hymn book the team sings from is almost irrelevant in terms of attracting crowds. The current NBL fan base consists of the left-overs from the 90s era plus those who play or are associated with the sport at grassroots level (& many are in both those 2 groups since the 90s was also when playing numbers boomed....no coincidence). Sure, some of these fans will like an open, shooting game with no D while others will prefer an arm-wrestle with punishing defense but it won't make much of an impact on game numbers (all fans like to see a good contest, no matter the style or even if their team wins or loses).

The real issue is that new converts to the sport are rare & even of those few who get dragged along to an NBL game & enjoy what they see, the vast majority won't bother coming back. Until that's addressed, then no matter what style of game Sydney teams play, they'll be playing it in front of empty seats. If that's going to be the situation anyway then I'm sure those few fans who do frequent NBL games in Sydney would prefer to see their team winning ugly than losing flashy.

[spik]

I do know this may seem trite, but Goorj only said a couple of seasons ago (after the club had said it in some sort of media conference) that he was a 'King for Life'. I would be surprised and very disappointed to see him move on for obvious reasons.

Spik
8)

[DDFan]

I'm pretty much confused by all this Sydney fan-base *** cough *** talk.
If Brian was brought in to bring on court success, what has it achieved? He's performed freak'n miracles, yet crowd numbers are still dismal. Firepower's provided massively subsidised seating prices, yet crowd attendances are still down.
Given every opportunity to succeed, Sydney's not up to it. Major market, marketing stronghold of Australia, undisputed on court success, yet a business failure. Too strong a point you say? Well to have that sort of success, & just be surviving, is absolutely pathetic.
Pull your heads outta your ar$e$.

[curious]

Lets not forget about all the Sixers woes. I guess you forgot to mention that.
Poor crowd attendances, with the 'most knowledgable fans' not going to games.
New owners and only recently Hemmerling has to go to Eddie for another hand out.
A coach that 'all players want to play for', who hasn't got a clue.
One reason they all want to play for Phil is that his trainings are soft.
Hence the declining position on the ladder of the last few seasons.
Maybe a new coach will instil some hunger and passion into the Sixers side. If they keep going they way they have been over the last few seasons you wont have to worry for much longer either about Sydney or Adelaide.

[DDFan]

You have no NYI. 5000+ attended a Poxtel aired game, to see a bunch finals pretenders with no coaching guidance, have a crack at the defending champs. Draw a parallel to the Kings situation, t00l.

[bear]

This, however, is not an exciting style of basketball, and comined with the import merry-go-round, as mentioned by another poster, it means fans are left with an unattractive game. It has obviously been a hard sell in the Sydney market and if the team doesn't win this year it seems possible they could move in another direction, particularly if the coach also wants out.
I'd take boring winning basketball over attractive high scoring losing basketball. Case in point, South Dragons! The club has built itself on the image of being marketable, flashy (with all the flames etc) and high scoring basketball hence the appointment of Price and Heal as head coaches. Also the make of their roster both last season and particularly this season has been totally focussed on offence, not defence, and trust me, watching a losing team play is not fun. Winning basketball is what people want to see. If it is to be 67-65 scorelines, then so be it. Better than losing 150-100. Goorjian would surely bring that mentality to the Dragons. Let's hope Cowan can make it happen.

I have a feeling you are a fan that will go and watch the Dragons no matter what. BG may be a good fit back in Melbourne anyway for a few reasons. There seem to be more diehard fans down there that know and appreciate his style, and even casual fans will know he had success there in the 90s.

I think the situation is Sydney is different. When you are trying to attract fans back to the game in Sydney it is obvious that boring, winning basketball is not what is needed. This is a city of 5 million people, with 3 chamionships and a finals series in the past 5 years, that can't draw a crowd and has the ownership losing cash. Basketball is still hugely popular at junior and social levels, but for some reason this doesn't translate into people actually being interested. Blame marketing and the media all you want, but the style of play must be a major contributing factor.

Despite an average record, some potentially tough competition that beat us by nearly 50 2 weeks ago, and the game being on fox, over 5000 people rocked up last night to watch the sixers play. Even though I personally think it may be time for a change at the sixers as well, Smyth and the boys have to be given credit for playing a style that people want to watch.

[The Minx]

Poor crowd attendances, with the 'most knowledgable fans' not going to games.


A crowd of 6141 on a wednesday night foxtel game against the Wildcat's on the 16th of January is poor? That must mean every crowd in the country is poor in terms of attendance........

[bear]

Lets not forget about all the Sixers woes. I guess you forgot to mention that.
Poor crowd attendances, with the 'most knowledgable fans' not going to games.
New owners and only recently Hemmerling has to go to Eddie for another hand out.
A coach that 'all players want to play for', who hasn't got a clue.
One reason they all want to play for Phil is that his trainings are soft.
Hence the declining position on the ladder of the last few seasons.
Maybe a new coach will instil some hunger and passion into the Sixers side. If they keep going they way they have been over the last few seasons you wont have to worry for much longer either about Sydney or Adelaide.

While I agree with some of your sentiments the crowds for the last 5 games have been awesome. Kings management would be creaming themselves it they could get half of the atomsphere we had last night. Interestingly, us "knowledgable fans" with the season tickets seem to be the only poor attenders with some empty seats in the lower levels. The top levels, who are mainly game by game fans, were packed.

[Stumps]

Blame marketing and the media all you want, but the style of play must be a major contributing factor.
As Daevo pointed out, the Swans' "boring" success shows this is probably not the case.

Basketball is not cool right now. Sadly, in Sydney trends matter more than in other places. If we ever return to a time when every second kid has a massive basketball card collection, or the Boomers generate some Socceroo-style international interest, then maybe Sydney will get interested again, but I fear that no amount of team success or change to the style of play will return the Kings to drawing 10,000 every week without some huge external influences like those I listed above.

[curious]

You have no NYI. 5000+ attended a Poxtel aired game, to see a bunch finals pretenders with no coaching guidance, have a crack at the defending champs. Draw a parallel to the Kings situation, t00l.
Wow 5023 people. Thats underwhelming for a venue that holds 7800 people.
Beating an injured Bullets side is an achievement for sure. Congrats.
Most unexpected. Another week for Phil to be able to say "we can make the Finals" That's all it means.
You ignore all the other points I made of course. Lets not let a W get in the way of the facts that off court the Sixers are struggling. Hemmerling needs to go to Eddie (who has nothing to do with the Sixers ;)) for a hand out to keep them afloat.
How is the new scoreboard going? :lol:
I hope Ballinger knows that Stacker might be the new coach and everyone enjoys that experience too.
Keep the faith. Fool.
Enjoy the off season. Its only a few weeks away.

[DDFan]

Wow 5023 people. Thats underwhelming for a venue that holds 7800 people.Try filling the Kings' venue to that proportion before you come up talk'n big.
Beating an injured Bullets side is an achievement for sure. Congrats.Let's not forget the 36ers were without Mahersy & Motts. :oops:
Another week for Phil to be able to say "we can make the Finals" That's all it means.Should he be saying more? :shock:
You ignore all the other points I made of course.You're repeating yourself, that doesn't make it right in my world.
Lets not let a W get in the way of the facts that off court the Sixers are struggling. Hemmerling needs to go to Eddie (who has nothing to do with the Sixers ;)) for a hand out to keep them afloat.Mr Hemmerling was never seen as having bottomless pockets, & being new to the scene I'm sure it's been a steep learning curve for him.
How is the new scoreboard going? :lol:Seeing as that's in Mr Groves' area, I don't see how it's relevant to your point.
I hope Ballinger knows that Stacker might be the new coach and everyone enjoys that experience too.There was talk of Stacks heading to the Dragons. What's it to be?

[UserFriendlyRoll]

Has anybody given a thought to BG's assistant, Bill Tomlinson maybe heading to the Dragons and a head job. Surely after a number of years as the ass. coach to BG, he would have picked up a lot of his knowledge and he is an ex Melbourne based coach having coached at Bulleen as well as Hobart.

[curious]

Wow 5023 people. Thats underwhelming for a venue that holds 7800 people.Try filling the Kings' venue to that proportion before you come up talk'n big.
An average crowd of 4000+ is a far cry from what the Sixers used to draw. Maybe thats got something to do with people staying away and watching the Sixers lose 'another one' over the last few seasons.
Beating an injured Bullets side is an achievement for sure. Congrats.Let's not forget the 36ers were without Mahersy & Motts. :oops:
Yeah Motts is going to make a lot of difference and a semi injured Maher will too. It's a shame that Mahers injury has been so poorly managed over the last few seasons. That mis management may force Maher to retire too early.
Another week for Phil to be able to say "we can make the Finals" That's all it means.Should he be saying more? :shock:
Yeah he should say "Sorry" for the last few seasons he has been in charge of and the poor performances he has allowed to ensue. Lets hope the Sixers advertise the position and get the best applicant.
You ignore all the other points I made of course.You're repeating yourself, that doesn't make it right in my world Well avoided again.
Lets not let a W get in the way of the facts that off court the Sixers are struggling. Hemmerling needs to go to Eddie (who has nothing to do with the Sixers ;)) for a hand out to keep them afloat..Mr Hemmerling was never seen as having bottomless pockets, & being new to the scene I'm sure it's been a steep learning curve for him. Wow. That makes perfect sense. He is the major owner allegedly a smart businessman and didn't know he needed bottomless pockets and it's a "
steep learning curve". Now that's funny.
How is the new scoreboard going? :lol:.Seeing as that's in Mr Groves' area, I don't see how it's relevant to your point.
I thought the Sixers owned the scoreboard and dont have the money to get it finsihed.
I hope Ballinger knows that Stacker might be the new coach and everyone enjoys that experience too.There was talk of Stacks heading to the Dragons. What's it to be?
Stacker. Has all bases covered. Adelaide is the strongest lately. PLeased to see you read what I posted about Stacker too. After all he helped Newley go back there didn't he.

[DDFan]

Lets not forget about all the Sixers woes. I guess you forgot to mention that.Fair enough, I'll see if I can convince you that I haven't forgotten the 36ers woes.
History lesson:
Being a hoops.com.au drop in, I'd hope that you are aware that the previous management weren't well received by the fans. Me included. They had a block put on the site to stop the bad-mouthing & it's still in play. That management was lazy & bordering on incompetent. Mr Hemmerling bought into a very shaky situation. Unfortunately for him, a lot of previous sponsors had lost interest, & I feel he hoped support might return due to his proven business credentials. He came in partway through last season which was already set for doom with disgruntled players upset by their treatment from the previous stooges. An unhappy, low budget team is not about to bring success or draw a crowd. Guess what? Worst season on record & lower crowd attendances. Low crowd attendances wasn't unique to last season, & that wholly falls on previous mis-management.
Poor crowd attendances, with the 'most knowledgable fans' not going to games.A curious cheap-shot. Response not avoided, just not required.
New owners and only recently Hemmerling has to go to Eddie for another hand out.What are mates for? Not that you'd know. :P
A coach that 'all players want to play for', who hasn't got a clue.
One reason they all want to play for Phil is that his trainings are soft.Not only is that statement put with up with zero research, it's an example of how little-minded you are.
Hence the declining position on the ladder of the last few seasons.Bear in mind the Kings on-court success, run by the winningest coach, you've got more to answer for than anyone.
Maybe a new coach will instil some hunger and passion into the Sixers side.You saw no hunger & passion last night? That's right, it was the Bullets playing crap that made it look that way. :roll:

[Daevo]

Has anybody given a thought to BG's assistant, Bill Tomlinson maybe heading to the Dragons and a head job. Surely after a number of years as the ass. coach to BG, he would have picked up a lot of his knowledge and he is an ex Melbourne based coach having coached at Bulleen as well as Hobart.
I hadn't thought of that. Of course Bill had the head coach gig in Sydney for a while & the past few years under Gorj would have done him no harm. He's also very much involved in junior basketball & does a great job in working with local youngsters.

[singy]

Maybe a new coach will instil some hunger and passion into the Sixers side. If they keep going they way they have been over the last few seasons you wont have to worry for much longer either about Sydney or Adelaide.

Put aside your hate agenda for one moment and have a think about this comment.

Would a team with no hunger and passion beat Sydney by 22 points and then beat Brisbane by 36 points? Gee, I'd hate to see what they'd do if they had some hunger and passion!

Just what did Phil actually do to you?

[redred]

Not being a Kings fan, but remembering very well their off court 'glory days' in the 90s, i do recall that a lot of people would get excited to go to games to watch guys like Dwayne Mclain, Leon Trimmingham.. and even in the losing seasons people went to watch James Smith or Kendrick Johnson throw down highlight reel jams. When those type of players left (as well as Brown/Blacks fast ball philosphy), all the fans seemingly did too..

Maybe thats really what Sydney ball fans want? Melbourne, with its bball purists and tradition, are much more likely to embrace Goorjs coaching styles imo.

its certainly possible

[fan since the old snakepit]

Maybe a new coach will instil some hunger and passion into the Sixers side. If they keep going they way they have been over the last few seasons you wont have to worry for much longer either about Sydney or Adelaide.

Put aside your hate agenda for one moment and have a think about this comment.

Would a team with no hunger and passion beat Sydney by 22 points and then beat Brisbane by 36 points? Gee, I'd hate to see what they'd do if they had some hunger and passion!

Just what did Phil actually do to you?

Yes. If I could be bothered I would count up how many posts curious has produced about Smyth, lie about the percentage just the way he did in his attack on me about legitimate answers to a SOJ topic and accuse him of being OBSESSED. But hey, I would then just look like a dickhead the way he does wouldn't I.

[DDFan]

But hey, I would then just look like a dickhead the way he does wouldn't I.It's a safe bet you'd never appear a dickhead (mod edit - deleted - personal)in the way voldemort-hater does. He's a natural.
edit: "voldermort-hater" substituted for c*****s, so it's not personal. Are we all happy with that? :P

[whupass]

Has anybody given a thought to BG's assistant, Bill Tomlinson maybe heading to the Dragons and a head job. Surely after a number of years as the ass. coach to BG, he would have picked up a lot of his knowledge and he is an ex Melbourne based coach having coached at Bulleen as well as Hobart.

Please, Billy T? Those in the know realise that he is only on the Kings staff to get Goorj's coffee!! His touhgest decision is to remember if its with one or two sugars!!

The man had a go in Hobart...no good

Had a crack in Sydney..again no good.

Does an old dog learn new tricks??

Don't think any knowledgable BB people would take the punt. So he probably is a good chance to get the gig at Souths. Cowan has NO idea, so Billy T may be a chance there.

Billy T better hope like hell BG stays and he can keep his cushy job with the Kings. If he does leave, he can alwyas use his experience to work in or run a coffee shop. Of course he can always go back to his trade, pushing sh#t as a plumber!!

[Earnie Shavers]

I'm pretty much confused by all this Sydney fan-base *** cough *** talk.
If Brian was brought in to bring on court success, what has it achieved? He's performed freak'n miracles, yet crowd numbers are still dismal. Firepower's provided massively subsidised seating prices, yet crowd attendances are still down.
Given every opportunity to succeed, Sydney's not up to it. Major market, marketing stronghold of Australia, undisputed on court success, yet a business failure. Too strong a point you say? Well to have that sort of success, & just be surviving, is absolutely pathetic.
Pull your heads outta your ar$e$.

Coming from a glorified country town might not help you with your sense of perspective.

The review of the Kings game vs Perth on Saturday night in our newspapers was, literally, the size of 2 postage stamps. This is pretty normal for a road game. A home game might (might) get a few paragraphs, but it's not guaranteed that it any Kings game will get covered at all beyond a brief expanded score summary by any of our media here. Sometimes the score gets read out on the evening news if there's not much else going on. I mean for f*cks sake, you get players and coaches actually interviewed on the evening news, you get ABA articles in the newspaper, you have a basketball columnist!

For the cost to the Kings of a quarter page black and white ad buried in the very back of the sports section in the Sydney Morning Herald, the 36ers could buy a full colour, full page ad on Page 3 of the Advertiser. For a full page colour ad in Sydney, the 36ers could be running a whole series of tv commercials in Adelaide. Lets not even begin on the competition between events and entertainment in Sydney in comparison to Adelaide.

The winning is great, the cheap tickets are f*cking fantastic and should have been in place years ago. "If you build it, they will come" is, of course, bullshit. If you build it, and invite them, and then fucking scream at them over and over and over and over and over until they think you might have something worthwhile there, then they might come. The Kings, pretty much through the whole of this decade, have through a lack of resources & support, and a serious drought of ideas, not been able to communicate what they have to any more than the smallest already basketball interested niche.

That they're still standing amazes me.

[Stumps]

If Goorjian leaves, they won't still be standing, it will be the final nail in their coffin.

[isaac]

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Adelaide fanatics suddenly cried out in joy and were suddenly silenced (too busy donating to Cowan's "Let's get Goorjian to the Dragons" Fund).

[Anfield]

I have a feeling you are a fan that will go and watch the Dragons no matter what. BG may be a good fit back in Melbourne anyway for a few reasons. There seem to be more diehard fans down there that know and appreciate his style, and even casual fans will know he had success there in the 90s. I have been to every single Dragons game in Melbourne so far including the 2 in Geelong last year. I'll still be there in the future and still am there despite all these losses. But it is getting really frustrating. I think a majority of the Dragons supporters are old Magic/Titans people or just Heal fans. I guess the Heal fans have dropped off now, but the old Magic Titans fans will definitely embrace the return of Goorjian and the style of ball he will bring with him. I have no doubt about that.

Maybe thats really what Sydney ball fans want? Melbourne, with its bball purists and tradition, are much more likely to embrace Goorjs coaching styles imo.
You might be right about Sydney being all about trends and wanting a more entertaining brand of ball whereas Melbourne are more concerned about pure basketball and winning basketball. I won't comment about statements that Sydney are struggling to pull crowds despite their success because I don't know the full story. But from Goorjian's point of view, he has won 3 championships there, perhaps a 4th this year. What else does he have to achieve there? Being a Melbourne person, having a house and family down here, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibilities that he may come to the Dragons for a new challenge.

Also talk about his record of sending clubs broke is a load of shit. What are those claims based on? The fact that the Magic became the Titans in the Giants merger and the Titans folded? What did that have to do with Goorjian? All he ever brought was success to the team.


Has anybody given a thought to BG's assistant, Bill Tomlinson maybe heading to the Dragons and a head job. Surely after a number of years as the ass. coach to BG, he would have picked up a lot of his knowledge and he is an ex Melbourne based coach having coached at Bulleen as well as Hobart.
Wasn't that Ray Tomlinson at Hobart? Also is Bill Tomlinson related to Ray?

[Stanley]

If Goorjian leaves, they won't still be standing, it will be the final nail in their coffin.

Merger with Hawks? :shock:

[isaac]

They get Kavossy back, you get Saville back - it's like a jigsaw puzzle coming together. :P

[DICKO]

Also talk about his record of sending clubs broke is a load of shit. What are those claims based on?

Sorry, Dude, I was with you until here.

Goorjian's program costs LOTS of money. The support staff, the roster, even the vitamins and supplements he expects the players to take. I wouldn't say he sent clubs broke, per se, but his program is expensive and you have to know that going in, otehrwise it will hurt later.

And if you want to know where that came from? 3 previous owners involved in Magic/Titans/Giants.

It's fact.....but you DO get what you pay for, as far as on-court success.

[devils]

I can see it now...

The Firepower Sydney Razorhawkes :D

[Julian]

Are Bob and Hazel running this new venture?

[Lemon Custard]

If Goorjian leaves, they won't still be standing, it will be the final nail in their coffin.

Merger with Hawks? :shock:

Wasn't one of the benefits of donating to the Hawks fund "not having to support the Kings"?

[Dunkin' Dan]

Goorjian's program costs LOTS of money. The support staff, the roster, even the vitamins and supplements he expects the players to take. I wouldn't say he sent clubs broke, per se, but his program is expensive and you have to know that going in, otehrwise it will hurt later.
Was it Goorj's decision to pay squillions for Saville? There's a move that helped f*** 2 clubs with one stone.

[Cussy]

Goorjian's program costs LOTS of money. The support staff, the roster, even the vitamins and supplements he expects the players to take. I wouldn't say he sent clubs broke, per se, but his program is expensive and you have to know that going in, otehrwise it will hurt later.
Was it Goorj's decision to pay squillions for Saville? There's a move that helped f*** 2 clubs with one stone.

hater ur just jealos!!~!

[Dunkin' Dan]

OK I retract that.

It helped kill 1 bird with 1 strone.

[3point]

dicko is right, in one season with titans vitamins cost 40k.
he will get you wins no doubt,may even get a championship, but at what cost the, club, probley , will it worry him, no.
he has a nbl program with a nba price tag, the two dont work.

[stellation]

dicko is right, in one season with titans vitamins cost 40k.
he will get you wins no doubt,may even get a championship, but at what cost the, club, probley , will it worry him, no.
he has a nbl program with a nba price tag, the two dont work.
He seriously spent $4k per player on vitamins?

[3point]

sure did

[The_Janitor]

dicko is right, in one season with titans vitamins cost 40k.
he will get you wins no doubt,may even get a championship, but at what cost the, club, probley , will it worry him, no.
he has a nbl program with a nba price tag, the two dont work.
He seriously spent $4k per player on vitamins?You'd be amazed at the prices of sporting supplements... I'm assuming thats one reason why Ascend sponsor the Dragons, free merch???

[cammo]

Spectres, Magic, Titans...Kings?

[stellation]

dicko is right, in one season with titans vitamins cost 40k.
he will get you wins no doubt,may even get a championship, but at what cost the, club, probley , will it worry him, no.
he has a nbl program with a nba price tag, the two dont work.
He seriously spent $4k per player on vitamins?You'd be amazed at the prices of sporting supplements... I'm assuming thats one reason why Ascend sponsor the Dragons, free merch???
I must admit I had little idea if $4k per player was a lot or not :D

[Stumps]

The few diehard Kings fans who remain (and keep renewing their season tickets) almost all worship the ground Goorjian walks on. If he leaves, a massive number of them will probably think twice about renewing. It really would condemn the franchise to irrelevance, probably death, and while those in other cities and states might proudly deny it, an NBL with no Sydney team (let's face it, how much longer are the Pigs going to be around?) -- heck, no NSW team -- isn't even going to be able to claim to be a second or third tier national sporting league.

[Anfield]

Also talk about his record of sending clubs broke is a load of shit. What are those claims based on?

Sorry, Dude, I was with you until here.

Goorjian's program costs LOTS of money. The support staff, the roster, even the vitamins and supplements he expects the players to take. I wouldn't say he sent clubs broke, per se, but his program is expensive and you have to know that going in, otehrwise it will hurt later.

Fair enough. I wasn't aware of this. I just assumed that the clubs were financially unstable and that Goorjian just happened to be coach at the time. Obviously as a kid following the old Magic, I wasn't aware of these things. hehe. Goorj was a hero back then and still is now. He's a top bloke too.

Anyway, I don't think that will be a problem for Mr Cowan and Germinder. They seem to have an endless pockets. Dragons are able to spend heaps on promoting the club, surely they'll be happy to spend on Goorjian's coaching for a bit of success.

[Juzzy S]

Who was the coach of Victoria Giants?
He did a reasonable job.
Maybe give him a crack.

[Anfield]

Who was the coach of Victoria Giants?
He did a reasonable job.
Maybe give him a crack.
Mark Wright was the coach of the Victoria Giants. Did he do a good job? From memory, they were pretty bad. Although I must say, I had totally stopped following the Victoria franchise by then. Was disillusioned with so many mergers. The closest I got to the action was 1 game I went to at MSAC and watching Nathan Crosswell shoot endless free throws at the end of practice at Monash when I was studying there. I was waiting for him to get off the court so I could have a shootaround!

[3point]

he was great, yer cut dusty rychart. adonis jordon.
under 12 d grade wright

[isaac]

I would hope that the original poster re Giants coach was being sarcastic!

[Da Houndawg #55]

I can tell you one thing, I feel VERY sorry for whoever takes over from Goorjian when he does leave Sydney.....
What is Wright doing these days?

[isaac]

Was talking about Juzzy S. I'd already assumed you were joking!

[Anfield]

What is Wright doing these days?
I think last time, someone on this board said that Mark Wright and his his Marcus are working on the docks moving shipping containers.

[WHIPS]

I'd have thought given his success, BG would be heading to Europe to command some serious bread.

[isaac]

How common are non-European coaches in Europe?

Cowan would want a multi-year commitment you'd think - could be an issue for Goorjian if he had plans to move abroad soon.

[hellcat]

Wasn't that Ray Tomlinson at Hobart? Also is Bill Tomlinson related to Ray?

Nope, Billy was the coach in Hobart. Ray use to coach the Melbourne Tigers WNBL team.

Pretty sure they are brothers.

[BlowJoggs]

hey guys

$40k might sound like a lot of money for "vitamins" but all the Kings players were surveyed and all reported an increase in engine performance and a drastic improvement in fuel consumption.


booyeah, can't stop the C-train

[Cussy]

Why are these "vitamins" such a big secret? Surely a coach is allowed to give his players estrogen if they need it.

[stellation]

I'd have thought given his success, BG would be heading to Europe to command some serious bread.
I'd have thought he would look at the college circuit.

[gangsta boo]

hey guys

$40k might sound like a lot of money for "vitamins" but all the Kings players were surveyed and all reported an increase in engine performance and a drastic improvement in fuel consumption.


booyeah, can't stop the C-train


According to the SMH these so called "vitamins" can also be found in moth balls :wink:

[Anfield]

There's been a few murmerings around the ABA ranks that proven ABA coaches Vince Crivelli and Mark Leader are in the mix for the Dragons' top job. What are people's thoughts on this?

Got the scoop from the BigV Forum, which isn't always a reliable source of information.
http://www.bigv.com.au/forum.cgi?act=dt ... post=23480 (http://www.bigv.com.au/forum.cgi?act=dt&thread=2130&post=23480)

[Stumps]

There's been a few murmerings around the ABA ranks that proven ABA coaches Vince Crivelli and Mark Leader are in the mix for the Dragons' top job. What are people's thoughts on this?
I think anybody not called Brian Goorjian is a great choice! :lol:

[curious]

Heal gets a full pay out as player and Coach.
Dragons losing another $3mill this season.
They better get the coach thing sorted out in a hurry.

[DICKO]

What is Wright doing these days?
I think last time, someone on this board said that Mark Wright and his his Marcus are working on the docks moving shipping containers.

Hardly working on the docks.....Wright owns a shipping company and is loaded.

I don't think he needs the stress......And I don't think we need him involved.

[franny]

Heal gets a full pay out as player and Coach.
Dragons losing another $3mill this season.
They better get the coach thing sorted out in a hurry.

It's time for Cowan to go all-in. He's poured a ton of money out in rent, marketing, and payouts to now former coaches. Bite the bullet and make Goorjian an offer he can't refuse, you've come too far now to do things by halves and/or retreat.

[DICKO]

OMG...Fanny.....You and I agree on something???!?!?!?!?!

You're right, Cowan has taken his chances twice and failed, with regard to the coaching situation. Surely he HAS to go for the best coach out there, to guarantee that this doesn't happen again. Rather pay Goorj too much than payout the contract of another failed attempt.

We all know who the best coach out there is.

[franny]

Good article by Grantley today as well on this. Signs are good that Cowan is keen to nab his man.

[BlowJoggs]

Has anybody given a thought to BG's assistant, Bill Tomlinson maybe heading to the Dragons and a head job. Surely after a number of years as the ass. coach to BG, he would have picked up a lot of his knowledge and he is an ex Melbourne based coach having coached at Bulleen as well as Hobart.

Please, Billy T? Those in the know realise that he is only on the Kings staff to get Goorj's coffee!! His touhgest decision is to remember if its with one or two sugars!!

The man had a go in Hobart...no good

Had a crack in Sydney..again no good.

Does an old dog learn new tricks??

Don't think any knowledgable BB people would take the punt. So he probably is a good chance to get the gig at Souths. Cowan has NO idea, so Billy T may be a chance there.

Billy T better hope like hell BG stays and he can keep his cushy job with the Kings. If he does leave, he can alwyas use his experience to work in or run a coffee shop. Of course he can always go back to his trade, pushing sh#t as a plumber!!

mate neva understate the value of good coffee - my girlfriend's boyfriend's sister's husband coaches an NBL team, for obvious reasons I can't say which one (rhymes with less kidney), anyway reportedly they increased their coffee budget this year from $10 to $40 and their wins doubled! True story.

[Virus]

Good article by Grantley today as well on this. Signs are good that Cowan is keen to nab his man.

Maybe I am being naive, but how can Grantley use a heading like "South Dragons want Brian Goorjian as coach" and make the claim that "SOUTH Dragons want the NBL's best, Brian Goorjian, as their next coach and are preparing an audacious bid to bring him back to Melbourne"
when Cowan's quoted comments were "It's against NBL rules to talk to any coach before the end of the season" "We are looking for a coach with experience who can bring with him the experience of winning." Sure, you can read between the lines about who he would like, but its hardly saying that they are making an audacious bid to get him.

Is it just the usual journalist sensationalism, or did Cowan tell him that off the record. And it was told off the record, then he would be mightily pissed off with what was then written in the article. If the NBL was serious about enforcing sanctions, shouldn’t they investigate the source of this article?

[Dunkin' Dan]

I think the key word there is 'preparing'.

[curious]

Maybe I am being naive, but how can Grantley use a heading like "South Dragons want Brian Goorjian as coach" and make the claim that "SOUTH Dragons want the NBL's best, Brian Goorjian, as their next coach and are preparing an audacious bid to bring him back to Melbourne"
when Cowan's quoted comments were "It's against NBL rules to talk to any coach before the end of the season" "We are looking for a coach with experience who can bring with him the experience of winning." Sure, you can read between the lines about who he would like, but its hardly saying that they are making an audacious bid to get him.
Is it just the usual journalist sensationalism, or did Cowan tell him that off the record. And it was told off the record, then he would be mightily pissed off with what was then written in the article. If the NBL was serious about enforcing sanctions, shouldn’t they investigate the source of this article?
Maybe Boti and Grantley were at the same school of jouralism. ;)
Never let the facts get in the way of a good beat uP.

[Cussy]

Never let your caPslock get in the way of a tyPo.

[curious]

NoPe.

[Stumps]

Is it just the usual journalist sensationalism, or did Cowan tell him that off the record. And it was told off the record, then he would be mightily pissed off with what was then written in the article.
You reckon? If I were Cowan, and officially forbidden to talk to the coach I wanted to sign, I certainly would be trying my best to get headlines in the papers that said "Cowan really, really, really wants to sign coach but isn't talking to him yet because that would be naughty", to give that coach something to think about before he signs an extension with his current team.

[Rat10]

Never miss any oPPortunity to criticise Boti.

[metalslugsman]

We all know who the best coach out there is.Phil Smyth?available and controls the media

[isaac]

Virus, the reporter can imply those sorts of thing while Cowan can't. And as Stumps has said, it's likely the outcome Cowan wants anyway.

[curious]

Never miss any oPPortunity to criticise Boti.
After the Copeland debacle no wonder, he deserves it.

[isaac]

Hardly deserves such on-going criticism. Get over it.

[DDFan]

Hardly deserves such on-going criticism. Get over it.You talk'n about curious, the knock'm down Boti-blower? :P

[curious]

Isaac had the right idea, and if you believe that it was anything else other than no one wanting you on hoops.com.au, you are more deluded than I thought.

[franny]

Is it just the usual journalist sensationalism, or did Cowan tell him that off the record. And it was told off the record, then he would be mightily pissed off with what was then written in the article.
You reckon? If I were Cowan, and officially forbidden to talk to the coach I wanted to sign, I certainly would be trying my best to get headlines in the papers that said "Cowan really, really, really wants to sign coach but isn't talking to him yet because that would be naughty", to give that coach something to think about before he signs an extension with his current team.

Spot on. Hopefully Goorj answers the call!

[hendrix]

how about Brett Brown to the Dragons??

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 89,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23176875-10389,00.html)

can't see why he'd leave the Spurs personnally, but .....

[Southern Joe]

..... One of these scenarios would hafta happen for Brett Brown to come back to Oz for ANY gig......

* He is gonna lose his job for some reaosn at Spurs & has no other prospects in the USA.

* He has made enough money to have a nest egg & take a pay cut & come back to Oz.

* His wife's homesickness is so strong it threatens their happiness & they decide to come & re-settle in Oz.

[coast2coast]

how about Brett Brown to the Dragons??

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 89,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23176875-10389,00.html)

can't see why he'd leave the Spurs personnally, but .....

I don't know that Brown's coaching record is anything special. He only won one championship with a loaded North Melbourne team and was beaten as favourites another time in Perth. He didn't enjoy great success in Sydney and rightfully took a job with the Spurs when it arose. There is nothing to say the Kings would have won their first Championship under Brown had he stayed rather than hand the job to Goorj. I doubt that anyone here would argue that Goorj was not a better coach at the time and still is.

That said it would be good to have Brown back but I don't think he guarantees success. He can certainly recruit and would be a far better option than Molloy for the Dragons. No doubt his experience and contacts he has garnered in the US would be beneficial but you would hardly take him over Goorj.

[Lemon Custard]

He's a great recruiter though. And without the 02/03 team he put together, the Kings would never have won that championship, and that’s what his role is at the Spurs – and he’s clearly pretty darn good at it. He’s now moved up to the bench at Spurs games, he used to just stand behind and you’d see him every now and again, but now, it’s constant. So leaving that job for one in Australia with a struggling team in a financially crippled league? Iunno Sam.

[WHIPS]

how about Brett Brown to the Dragons??

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 89,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23176875-10389,00.html)

can't see why he'd leave the Spurs personnally, but .....

As a weekly reader of Sam's column, let me just say I'm glad he's a great basketballer. :lol:

I certainly agree with Joe and Hendrix on the likelihood of Brown returning to Oz any time soon for a professional appointment.

[gangsta boo]

He is now officially an assistant coach with the Spurs.

Surely after working his way up into a very prominent position in the NBA he wouldn't just throw it away to come back to the NBL

[Daevo]

Not unless he's got more money than brains.

[blueberry]

Meg, it's not a question of being fickle. It's the state of basketball in this city. The Kings are on top of the ladder by 4 games. You can buy a ticket in good seats for $10 a game. It is without doubt outstanding value for money. It's not about the Kings and the costs of going to a game. The fact is no one gives a sh#t about basketball anymore.

I agree and to top it off for some fans, why pay to go & see when it is on Fox virtually everyweek.

When Foxtel stops telecasting almost every Kings home game (especially the big ones) then the crowds won't come.

It gets hard to go to a game with some much more on - Sydney FC playing, cricket on, etc.

Most crowds have been over 2000 this year which is about average for most teams

[barney111]

Did not Goorjian sign a 7 year deal to stay at the Kings ?

I thought he was contracted until the end of 2012

I thought that was ludicrous when he signed that sort of contract

I doubt BG is going anywhere too soon

[curious]

Did not Goorjian sign a 7 year deal to stay at the Kings ?
I thought he was contracted until the end of 2012
I thought that was ludicrous when he signed that sort of contract
I doubt BG is going anywhere too soon

Nope.
Nope.
He never did.
Never be so sure.

[barney111]

Hey curious

I remember reading an article a year or so ago on the nbl website that Goorj had signed a long term deal with the Kings

Anybody know how to access the old archives from the nbl website ?

[Cussy]

www.nbl.com.au/oldarticleaccesssectionisinhere.html (http://www.nbl.com.au/oldarticleaccesssectionisinhere.html)

[Earnie Shavers]

Barney, it's been stated in a couple of articles on this that Goorjian has a year to go on his contract (not including this current one).

[The_Janitor]

www.nbl.com.au/oldarticleaccesssectionisinhere.html :lol:

[franny]

Grantley keeps hammering the Goorj to Dragons line.

[Stumps]

Why wouldn't he? It would certainly help make his job more relevant.

[Bouncer]

Did not Goorjian sign a 7 year deal to stay at the Kings ?
Not that far off Barney. The first contract was 3 years, but he signed for 5 more after 2 years. So your 7 years is in fact correct.

I thought he was contracted until the end of 2012
The 2 years was 2003 and 2004, then the 5 years end at the conclusion of the 2009 season.

I thought that was ludicrous when he signed that sort of contract
The first for 3 years was good, but I think the 5 years was a great move by the Kings.


I doubt BG is going anywhere too soon
End of 2009, unless the Kings "sell" the remaining year or aren't around to see it through. I can't see the "aren't around" escape happening because realistically they could "sell" BG's final year for enough to run the team for 2 years. If they didn't charge that much, then they would be crazy.

[DDFan]

I'm agree'n with Bouncer on this one. I'm sure I got from this site that Goorj signed a 5 year deal, & the Sydney-based OzHo community blew a load.
Either they've got memory probs, or have taken too many blows. :P

[Daevo]

I doubt BG is going anywhere too soon
End of 2009, unless the Kings "sell" the remaining year or aren't around to see it through. I can't see the "aren't around" escape happening because realistically they could "sell" BG's final year for enough to run the team for 2 years. If they didn't charge that much, then they would be crazy.
Unless whoever wants him waits for the Kings to fold & saves themself having to buy out his contract.
(All hypothetically speaking of course :wink:)

[Stumps]

I don't think the Kings could actually name their price -- usually in sports when a coach wants to get out of a contract the incumbent team gets given compensation that's decided by the league in question, the governing body (FIBA), or some other arbitrating body. The Kings couldn't get away with just saying "We'll only let him go for one billion dollars" or something like that.

[Bouncer]

I don't think the Kings could actually name their price -- usually in sports when a coach wants to get out of a contract the incumbent team gets given compensation that's decided by the league in question, the governing body (FIBA), or some other arbitrating body. The Kings couldn't get away with just saying "We'll only let him go for one billion dollars" or something like that.

In a contract dispute that is often the resolution, but that isn't the case in this instance. There is no dispute, in some ways it is like a Premier League soccer player being "sold" to another team. The value is based on his worth to the acquiring team. So the question is how much is Goorj "worth" to the Dragons? My answer would be over $5M based on what he would bring to that franchise. That assessment is based on his ability to assemble a winning team, get them playing hard every night and winning championships. Add that to Cowan's ability to promote (something the Kings seem to lack) and $5M is cheap.


I will preface the following with this, people that haven't had Goorj as their team's coach may have difficulty understanding why this is the case. When/if you are ever lucky enough to have that privilege, then you may just have some comprehension of why the following is applicable.

The other side of that argument is, what is Goorj worth to the Kings? And my answer to that would be $incalculable. IMHO the damage it would do would be beyond the Kings ability to survive. My advice to the Kings management, in the unlikely event that I was asked, would be to sign him up for another 5 years right now. In fact I would like to see a lifetime contract.

[curious]

In a contract dispute that is often the resolution, but that isn't the case in this instance. There is no dispute, in some ways it is like a Premier League soccer player being "sold" to another team. The value is based on his worth to the acquiring team. So the question is how much is Goorj "worth" to the Dragons? My answer would be over $5M based on what he would bring to that franchise. That assessment is based on his ability to assemble a winning team, get them playing hard every night and winning championships. Add that to Cowan's ability to promote (something the Kings seem to lack) and $5M is cheap.


I will preface the following with this, people that haven't had Goorj as their team's coach may have difficulty understanding why this is the case. When/if you are ever lucky enough to have that privilege, then you may just have some comprehension of why the following is applicable.

The other side of that argument is, what is Goorj worth to the Kings? And my answer to that would be $incalculable. IMHO the damage it would do would be beyond the Kings ability to survive. My advice to the Kings management, in the unlikely event that I was asked, would be to sign him up for another 5 years right now. In fact I would like to see a lifetime contract.
The Kings would need some serious ca$h to sign BG for another 5 seasons.
I have no knowledge of this at all, but I very much doubt that the current owner of the Kings will be around for that long.
As to no dispute. Who said that?

[Dunkin' Dan]

So the question is how much is Goorj "worth" to the Dragons? My answer would be over $5M based on what he would bring to that franchise. That assessment is based on his ability to assemble a winning team, get them playing hard every night and winning championships. Add that to Cowan's ability to promote (something the Kings seem to lack) and $5M is cheap.
^ Could someone explain that joke to me? I don't get it. :|

[Bouncer]

The Kings would need some serious ca$h to sign BG for another 5 seasons.
He didn't get paid in advance for the last 5 season's contract, why would he expect that now?

I have no knowledge of this at all, but I very much doubt that the current owner of the Kings will be around for that long.
It didn't matter for the last 5 years contract, why should it matter for this one? The shareholders may change, but the company stays the same.

As to no dispute. Who said that?
There is a contract, it is registered, it has been in effect for 4 years, so it would be hard to dispute the contract validity.

[cammo]

The funny thing is, BG leaving the Kings would be the final nail in the Kings coffin but also the final nail in the Dragons coffin. So just stay in Sydney please BG and we're all a bunch of happy campers.

[Young Gun]

The funny thing is, BG leaving the Kings would be the final nail in the Kings coffin but also the final nail in the Dragons coffin. So just stay in Sydney please BG and we're all a bunch of happy campers. Have to agree on this one

[Bouncer]

BG leaving the Kings ........also the final nail in the Dragons coffin

Please explain your logic. I would have thought that BG's almost guaranteed on court success would go with Cowan's obvious off court promotion to make a formidable combination.

[curious]

[quote=curious]The Kings would need some serious ca$h to sign BG for another 5 seasons.
He didn't get paid in advance for the last 5 season's contract, why would he expect that now?

I have no knowledge of this at all, but I very much doubt that the current owner of the Kings will be around for that long.
It didn't matter for the last 5 years contract, why should it matter for this one? The shareholders may change, but the company stays the same.

As to no dispute. Who said that?
There is a contract, it is registered, it has been in effect for 4 years, so it would be hard to dispute the contract validity.[/quote:2io96u3s]
I would doubt that a "promise" would do it now for securing BG to commit to the Kings for the next 5 seasons.
No guarantee what so ever that the company that own the Kings would remain the same.
No guarantee what so ever that the Kings might even be here next season let alone in another 6.
They might have a contract but that not to say it hasn't been voided.
Maybe the Dragons can do what they do for players and give the a ca$h sign on fee. ;)

[DDFan]

The funny thing is, BG leaving the Kings would be the final nail in the Kings coffin but also the final nail in the Dragons coffin. So just stay in Sydney please BG and we're all a bunch of happy campers.From my readings over the years, I'm listening to cammo, rather than the Goorj-cum-latelies.

[Bake]

Name me a club that hasn't gone broke either during or shortly after Goorgian's tenure as coach.

[Lethal Vertical]

BG leaving the Kings ........also the final nail in the Dragons coffin

Please explain your logic. I would have thought that BG's almost guaranteed on court success would go with Cowan's obvious off court promotion to make a formidable combination.

The funny thing is, this is what I already said earlier (elsewhere on this forum) and got shouted down :lol:

[cammo]

Please explain your logic. I would have thought that BG's almost guaranteed on court success would go with Cowan's obvious off court promotion to make a formidable combination.

In theory the combination could work, but it didn't exactly work out for the Magic or the Titans did it? If you think the Dragons are losing money now, add BG into the mix and its just history repeating itself all over again and you can add the Dragons to the list.

If I'm a Kings fan, I'd only start to worry about BG leaving if say, Jason Smith is mysteriously 'sacked' after this season.

[Judge_Dredd]

Name me a club that hasn't gone broke either during or shortly after Goorgian's tenure as coach.

Newcastle
Hunter
Hobart
Gold Coast (Mark I)
Geelong
Canberra

Is that what you meant?

[DDFan]

Name me a club that hasn't gone broke either during or shortly after Goorgian's tenure as coach.

Newcastle
Hunter
Hobart
Gold Coast (Mark I)
Geelong
Canberra

Is that what you meant?I doubt it.
Did Goorj coach Newcastle, Hunter, Hobart, GC Mk I, Geelong, or indeed Canberra? Answer is NO.
Once again, Judge "Judy Doll" has an overinflated opinion.

[Judge_Dredd]

Name me a club that hasn't gone broke either during or shortly after Goorgian's tenure as coach.

Newcastle
Hunter
Hobart
Gold Coast (Mark I)
Geelong
Canberra

Is that what you meant?I doubt it.
Did Goorj coach Newcastle, Hunter, Hobart, GC Mk I, Geelong, or indeed Canberra? Answer is NO.
Once again, Judge "Judy Doll" has an overinflated opinion.

Thanks for the self-parody DD :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bouncer]

In theory the combination could work, but it didn't exactly work out for the Magic or the Titans did it?

They didn't have Cowan :idea:

If you think the Dragons are losing money now, add BG into the mix and its just history repeating itself all over again and you can add the Dragons to the list.

The Dragons are losing money because they haven't reached their crowd targets. Start winning a few games and that wouldn't be a problem. I bet the crowd numbers would go up a thousand or so just by having Goorj as the coach.

[Cram]

The problem here is also that he's really only ever coached into 2 (entirely seperate) organisations.

The merger/consolidation of the Melbourne teams would have happened no matter who was coaching, managing, playing etc. There were 4-5 clubs in Melbourne when he started. That was never going to last. The Tigers and Giants looked like merging at one point before the Giants-Magic one went through.

Yes he runs an expensive program, but does he sign the cheques himself?

[Bouncer]

BG leaving the Kings ........also the final nail in the Dragons coffin

Please explain your logic. I would have thought that BG's almost guaranteed on court success would go with Cowan's obvious off court promotion to make a formidable combination.

The funny thing is, this is what I already said earlier (elsewhere on this forum) and got shouted down :lol:

By me :?:

[DDFan]

[quote=Bake]Name me a club that hasn't gone broke either during or shortly after Goorgian's tenure as coach.

Newcastle
Hunter
Hobart
Gold Coast (Mark I)
Geelong
Canberra

Is that what you meant?I doubt it.
Did Goorj coach Newcastle, Hunter, Hobart, GC Mk I, Geelong, or indeed Canberra? Answer is NO.
Once again, Judge "Judy Doll" has an overinflated opinion.

Thanks for the self-parody DD :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote:1o6vuv0o]No worries mate, you don't own me at all.

[cammo]

They didn't have Cowan

Visy Recycling was a major sponsor for the Titans. See the link? And you can bet your arse he had at least some involvement with the Magic too.

The Dragons are losing money because they haven't reached their crowd targets. Start winning a few games and that wouldn't be a problem. I bet the crowd numbers would go up a thousand or so just by having Goorj as the coach

The Dragons are losing money because they aren't getting the crowd targets required to play out of a seriously expensive venue. Winning isn't always the answer, just ask the Kings.

[Earnie Shavers]

How would the Kings be doing if they even had the cash for even semi-competent promotion? What if they had the cash for excellent promotion? How do you think the Dragons would be doing off court if they had boomed out of the gates and were Top 4 contenders in both of the past couple of seasons?

[Earnie Shavers]

If I'm a Kings fan, I'd only start to worry about BG leaving if say, Jason Smith is mysteriously 'sacked' after this season.

He's a free agent this off season.

[cammo]

Yes he runs an expensive program, but does he sign the cheques himself?

Nope. Want to know what happens when you don't sign them though?

[cammo]

He's a free agent this off season.

Yikes! :oops:

[cammo]

How would the Kings be doing if they even had the cash for even semi-competent promotion? What if they had the cash for excellent promotion? How do you think the Dragons would be doing off court if they had boomed out of the gates and were Top 4 contenders in both of the past couple of seasons?

That's alot of 'if's' Earnie. If they had've boomed out of the gates were a top 4 contender, the Dragons position may have been slightly better in the short term but not in the long term then what they are currently. I like Cowan's patience, but some major fuck up's have really set him back, so lets hope his patience extends even further.

Like I said earlier, the 'winning gets bum on seats' theory does not work anymore. The Magic, the Titans, the Kings, all highly successful teams but when it came down to it, they were (are) losing money and losing it fast.

Unfortunately, El Fat Bastard over at the Tigers really knows the best way of running a club (without taking cap-breaching and screwing around with points into account). He was a fucking milk bar owner for crying out loud!

[DDFan]

You Kings fans just don't get it do you? FFS, cammo's family has been burnt by Brian in the past, yet you guys know better.
As cammo says, keep Brian.
For cry'n out loud, he wants you to keep Brian in Sydney.

[DICKO]

Whilst I agree with Cammo, I also think that the ONLY way the Dragons can succeed is with on-court success sooner rather than later. Goorjian is a guy that can bring that.

IF Cowan goes into this with his eyes wide open and can still maintain he's in it for the long haul, then good for him. But he HAS to be aware of the pitfalls up front.

As a fan, I'd love to have Brian back, but there are certainly potential issues.

If I was a Sydney Kings fan, I wouldn't be worried about losing Brian quite as mcuh as this fact......

Most players over the years who have played for BG, have a clause in their contract that gets them out of anything if the coach is no longer BG.

I am not sure that this is the case any more, but if so, that would scare me a lot more.

[cammo]

You Kings fans just don't get it do you? FFS, cammo's family has been burnt by Brian in the past, yet you guys know better.
As cammo says, keep Brian.
For cry'n out loud, he wants you to keep Brian in Sydney.

:lol: Fair go DD, he didn't burn my family as such, he just made some very questionable moves before he left for Sydney that really didn't help basketball in Melbourne or for basketball in Australia as a whole for that matter.

On a superficial level, BG is an aboslutely top bloke as are most coaches in the league. But, nice guys finish last, and BG sure as hell knows that :lol:

[Julian]

Yes he runs an expensive program, but does he sign the cheques himself?
Nope. Want to know what happens when you don't sign them though?
Temper tantrum?

[cammo]

:lol: Well yeh you probably get a bit of that too. And BG's tanty's are straight up mean! I'm sure a few here have been to his training sessions.

[singy]

This may be slightly off-topic, but there's been plenty of chat in this thread about the Kings' future. I was thinking though, can anyone explain how the Kings could NOT be around next year? Did they not also have to sign a "Commitment to Compete" form for the next season? Or, is this just something that the NBL forces some clubs to do? I'm a tad confused on this one. :?

[curious]

You Kings fans just don't get it do you? FFS, cammo's family has been burnt by Brian in the past, yet you guys know better.

Clearly you know something that Cammo, doesn't.
Yet you seem to know better. :oops:
Let the guy speak on his own behalf.
His family hasn't been 'burnt' as Cammo said himself.
:roll:
We won't go down the Giants road will we Cammo. ;)

BTW a "commitment to play" means that the NBL club has agreed to playnext season by a certain date so the draw can be planned etc
Of course if that club folds and is broke, what are the NBL going to do?
I think you will find in time that things in this regard will change.
More serious guarantess might need to be given in that regard.

[nonuthin]

Those who don't want Stacker as coach better hope Goorjian gets the gig as Stacker is 2nd cab off the rank.

[curious]

Stacker has said "Dragons or no where"
BG # 1 I assume?

[Stumps]

You Kings fans just don't get it do you? FFS, cammo's family has been burnt by Brian in the past, yet you guys know better.
As cammo says, keep Brian.
For cry'n out loud, he wants you to keep Brian in Sydney.
Why are you getting so agitated about this? Nobody is having a go at cammo.

[cammo]

We won't go down the Giants road will we Cammo. :wink:

:lol: We certainly won't. The amount of fuck ups there make Cowan look like a genius.

[DICKO]

We won't go down the Giants road will we Cammo. :wink:

:lol: We certainly won't. The amount of (Extremely Naughty Word!) ups there make Cowan look like a genius.

Pffft.....Dusty was a hack! Sacking him was a great move.

I don't think Stacks is the bad option that everyone seems to think. He may not have had the ultimate success in Townsville but he certainly put together a solid, well structured system that worked and got them up in the standings.

He's a likable personality, and he is passionate about what he does, which makes him good for the fans....One thing that Molloy probably falls short a bit on (the personality, not the passion). Stacker has good people skills with players and has, in the past at least, been able to attract and keep talent.

He's no BG, but I have no problem with him being the next best option.

Long Term? Maybe not, see how he goes.....But as a guy who can put a solid foundation in place? Absolutely.

It will depend.....

If Cowan is thinking championship within 3 years, then he MAY not be the right guy.

But if he's thinking stabilise, good system, structured plan, able to work with young and old players alike....Stacks is fine with me.

[djmenow]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 69,00.html (http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23230718-23769,00.html)

Goorj keeps door open
By Grantley Bernard

February 18, 2008

AFTER six NBL seasons and three championships with the Sydney Kings, Brian Goorjian is thinking about coming home to Melbourne to coach the South Dragons.

[3point]

gee i hope you were joking about dusty dicko.
goorge is good no doubt, but at what cost, spectors,magic,titans,now sydney broke.not a good off court record, like i said befor there is probley of coaches o/s the would jump at an opportunity to coach here .
be patiant and look closley and im sure something decent will come.
i personaly would like to see and up and comming european or us.

[DICKO]

gee i hope you were joking about dusty dicko.

I was fishing for a bite from Cammo, but caught a ole big arse shark instead :D

Problem with unproven Euro and US coaches is that they've already tried that once.....To get ahead they need proven success, and there's only one coach that falls into that category. As I said, I'm fine with Goorjian, as long as Cowan KNOWS what he's getting into.

Funny aside, was Goorj's confidence prior to the Dragons game. We all know he's got supporters in Melbourne. But to venture into the stands, high fiving, getting photos and signing autographs a few minutes before tip-off was odd for him.

[3point]

not a untried coach dicko, but there must be some coaches the are good coaches but because of limited opportunity carnt get the big gig.

[glockers]

I doubt an up and coming Euro or American coach will get the gig. Especially if you consider history. Stacker is a good coach and would do a fine job. I hope it isn't Goorj though lol.

[shike]

I hope the dragons use their head and not their pockets Stacker would have to be the best choice.

Stacker given the same opportunity as BG had over the same period I'm sure Stacker would be that far in front of BG he wouldn't blow wind up his back side.


Fodder for thought

[Cram]

you reckon? What have ya got to back that up?

You got one guy with 5 rings at two different clubs and (by far) the winningest coach in the history of the league. The other guy has been good with underdog teams, but has only managed one grand final (after a semi final win over a one legged Goorjian team) which they lost.

Dont get me wrong, I actually think Stacker is a good option, but I've always thought of him as 'Goorjian lite'

[3point]

stacker stacker for gods sake lets move forward, sure he did allright with the crocks, 1 team town big budget, and got the sack, is he going to attrack players and sponsors, we need not only a coach but a marketer ala sheedy, a lot of euro/ us coaches have players and sponsors to the club, as for we have tried this before, who price, we keep brinking back the same old same old.

[DICKO]

stacker stacker for gods sake lets move forward, sure he did allright with the crocks, 1 team town big budget, and got the sack, is he going to attrack players and sponsors, we need not only a coach but a marketer ala sheedy, a lot of euro/ us coaches have players and sponsors to the club, as for we have tried this before, who price, we keep brinking back the same old same old.

You do realise that your posts are starting to read like a DDFAN diatribe, don't you?

As for your points, yes, Marketing is important and again Goorjian is probably the best candidate in that area too. He's the guy.....That's the fact. Great with supporters, great with sponsors, good relationship with the media, Quotable, amiable.

But again, Cowan needs to be prepared to take it on knowing the expense.

If he doesn't then, or BG just makes himself unavailable then yes, looking to other options would be a good idea, especially before taking your second choice (which I assume would be Stacker).

[Cram]

I liked Stackers efforts to out do Goorj with Townsville too, building the 'Titans of the north' with guys like Kelly, MacKinnon, Knight, Rose, (note i know all apart from kelly werent even titans, but they did play for Goorj). We often referred to them as the 'Evil Titans', similar to 'Evil Cartman' in South park.

I'd like to see Stacker get the Dragons job. I think he's got enough of the Goorj factor about him to generate some publicity (and results) in Melbourne, while not actually being Goorj (and thus being cheaper and not associated with previous clubs)

[3point]

true dicko, will the cost outway the benifits, i think you are very harsh to me and i may have to bring this friendship to a end.

[DDFan]

stacker stacker for gods sake lets move forward, sure he did allright with the crocks, 1 team town big budget, and got the sack, is he going to attrack players and sponsors, we need not only a coach but a marketer ala sheedy, a lot of euro/ us coaches have players and sponsors to the club, as for we have tried this before, who price, we keep brinking back the same old same old.

You do realise that your posts are starting to read like a DDFAN diatribe, don't you?
Here we go. :P

The last time I :

1 .. Went capsless?
2 .. Wrote God, without a capital G?
3 .. Lost the cause on apostrophes?
4 .. Used the AFL, as a point-maker?
5 .. Gave a dollop, or intimated knowledge about Euro or US coaches?
6 .. Made that many typos?
7 .. Had the audacity to use a riDICKOlous capslock, on my tag?

Let's all hope I've unleashed the wind generating source that'll save the planet. Blow it out your ar$e DICKO. :D :D :D

[DICKO]

Yep....that just pretty much proved my point.

Thanks for your confirmation....I did think I was imagining it.

[DICKO]

will the cost outway the benifits

That is the million dollar question and only one bloke can answer it..... The guy that it's going to cost.

i think you are very harsh to me and i may have to bring this friendship to a end.

I think you'll survive, as will our enduring friendship :D

[3point]

come on dicko, you know my grammer is crap, but drinking now thats where i do excell

[isaac]

3point, is a US/EU coach likely to attract talent any better than someone like Stacker with local contacts? A US/EU guy might have a slight advantage with imports but that fills two spots out of ten. If they do take that road, they need to make sure it's for the right reasons and the prospect can actually coach.

[3point]

isaac , i agree,a good coach with links to euro or us leagues may be attractive, it should be noted that bg gets the best players because of the boomers. my thoughts are that if you could get some one who has the right contacts it may be attracive for some yonger players to go down that path and have some doors opened for them

[DICKO]

it should be noted that bg gets the best players because of the boomers.

OMG, don't make me come down there!!!!!!

BG was attracting the best talent in the NBL long before he became Boomers coach......don't you remember the Magic rosters or Titans rosters?

[isaac]

The Boomers gig helps (e.g., didn't hurt in getting Hinder), but the reputation for pushing the players probably does more when it comes to the younger prospects like getting Tovey across from Perth.

[Dunkin' Dan]

isaac , i agree
Yes, isaac was right.

[Lethal Vertical]

I'd love to have Goorj in Melbourne again. For two reasons:

1. It'd ensure the rivalry was good because it'd almost guarantee that the Dragons would be a top side.

2. It'd make it easy to hate them!

[King of Kings]

The Boomers gig helps (e.g., didn't hurt in getting Hinder), but the reputation for pushing the players probably does more when it comes to the younger prospects like getting Tovey across from Perth.

Isaac, You normally seem to know what you are talking about, but you are being ridiculous in suggesting that Hinder came to the Kings because of the BOOMERS!! He is a Sydney boy and wanted to come home. The Kings just lost Ben Knight to the Slingers and was a perfect replacement. He was not going to head to Singapore and did not want to go back to the PIGS.
Tovey Hated every minute of being at the Wildcats. Vlhov and Fisher have that effect on players. He wanted to come to the KIngs to play for a real coach and learn the game. He has done that and how.

This BG and Boomer thing is such Cr@p. There has been many a time Brian has approached players people on here claim should be in the Aussie side only to be told they are hurt(cough! Anstey!! and others) or don't want to go to camp or on that tour. Which is why he takes Kings players. Such an instance was when he took Luke Martin to China. No other PG wanted to go.

So much for great support for the Boomers by many players.

[curious]

The Boomers gig helps (e.g., didn't hurt in getting Hinder), but the reputation for pushing the players probably does more when it comes to the younger prospects like getting Tovey across from Perth.
Hehehehe.
Tovey wanted out because he wanted to play for the Kings.
Tovey approached the Kings. Nothing more than he didnt want to play for Fisher. I have said that since day 1.

[metalslugsman]

The Boomers gig helps (e.g., didn't hurt in getting Hinder), but the reputation for pushing the players probably does more when it comes to the younger prospects like getting Tovey across from Perth.
Hehehehe.
Tovey wanted out because he wanted to play for the Kings.
Tovey approached the Kings. Nothing more than he didnt want to play for Fisher. I have said that since day 1.any idea why he did n't want to?

[isaac]

Guys, you've both just confirmed what I said regarding Tovey - that his decision was more about the coaching/development under Goorjian than anything about the Boomers.

My Hinder comment comes from something he said that Goorjian said to him during negotiations. That's all. I said that it didn't hurt with them attracting him, not that it was a critical factor so you might want to backtrack on your claims that I'm being "ridiculous"?

[curious]

The Boomers gig helps (e.g., didn't hurt in getting Hinder), but the reputation for pushing the players probably does more when it comes to the younger prospects like getting Tovey across from Perth.
Hehehehe.
Tovey wanted out because he wanted to play for the Kings.
Tovey approached the Kings. Nothing more than he didnt want to play for Fisher. I have said that since day 1.any idea why he did n't want to?
Yes. I have gone into some of the details (not all) previously.
One of them was respect. (My words).
Certainly IMO he's had a good season and a good career move.

[metalslugsman]

The Boomers gig helps (e.g., didn't hurt in getting Hinder), but the reputation for pushing the players probably does more when it comes to the younger prospects like getting Tovey across from Perth.
Hehehehe.
Tovey wanted out because he wanted to play for the Kings.
Tovey approached the Kings. Nothing more than he didnt want to play for Fisher. I have said that since day 1.any idea why he did n't want to?
Yes. I have gone into some of the details (not all) previously.
One of them was respect. (My words).
Certainly IMO he's had a good season and a good career move.His respect for Fisher or Fisher's respect for him? Certainly you can't argue that playing under Goorjian is a good move from the point of development but it was a shame to see him move on from his home town.

Obviously I am not an insider at the club but Fisher can't be that bad. I really cannot see how he is as bad as some posters suggest

[Cussy]

If a rookie can decide that his coach doesn't show enough respect after one season, them let him go. We improved with him gone from the line-up, and he missed out on playing minutes (and possibly starting) in the following season.

[curious]

My words.
Don't make a big issue of it.

[Cussy]

Na, I'm not. I'm just saying that if players aren't buying in to the coaches system, then there is no point having them there. I'm sure Goorj would treat them the same.

The Cats got rid of an assistant coach who was undermining Fisher and we improved out of sight.

[metalslugsman]

who was that asst.? i cant remember any more

[Julian]

Dave Ingham.

[King of Kings]

who was that asst.? i cant remember any more

With all the stuff being said that BG might not be at the Kings next season. Here is one you can take to the bank.

Vlahov won't be involved with the Wildcats once this season is finished. Which will likely mean the end of Fisher also. You have been advised!!

[curious]

I would be more worried about things at home.
What can you tell us on that front?

[Melbourne Wildcat]

Ive never heard anything about Tovey not enjoying playing for the Cats. The team even took him to all the away playoff games when he was out injured and wasnt going to play. Not many teams would do that for a rookie player.

I just think it was more about $. Sure he may be getting less now but I think he just didnt feel respected with the amount perth offered. He decided to play for a better coach but also less money. Where did you hear Tovey hated playing for fisher?

[curious]

I just think it was more about $. Sure he may be getting less now but I think he just didnt feel respected with the amount perth offered. He decided to play for a better coach but also less money. Where did you hear Tovey hated playing for fisher?
Who said he's getting less now?
I don't ever recall he said he 'hated' playing for Fisher.

[coast2coast]

who was that asst.? i cant remember any more

With all the stuff being said that BG might not be at the Kings next season. Here is one you can take to the bank.

Vlahov won't be involved with the Wildcats once this season is finished. Which will likely mean the end of Fisher also. You have been advised!!

Is that because he will be running the NBL?

[Silencer83]

who was that asst.? i cant remember any more

With all the stuff being said that BG might not be at the Kings next season. Here is one you can take to the bank.

Vlahov won't be involved with the Wildcats once this season is finished. Which will likely mean the end of Fisher also. You have been advised!!

Is that because he will be running the NBL?

That is the only reason I can think of for Vlahov EVER not being involved with the Wildcats.

[Cussy]

This is the fourth consecutive season that the stories about either Vlahov or Fisher severing ties with club have surfaced.

[Southern Joe]

..... And have any of those stories actually eminated from WA ??

[Cussy]

About half and half, I would say.

[Southern Joe]

... Hmm .

Just that none of the BG to Dragons stories seem to be starting or being picked up on by Sydney papers ... not even Timmy ... who always seems to still have an axe to grind with the Kings.

[Cussy]

The difference is that the Melbourne papers do have a reason for getting excited about it, as they have a local team to consider. No one has really said why AV/Fish are leaving, or where they are going to.

But nothing has appeared in The West, apart from a recent article about Fisher's contract negotiations being put on hold after a three game skid.

[Southern Joe]

... But Sydney has a local team to consider as well.... as well as the Kings being a bigger brand name than either Melbourne team. Sydney has penty to lose if BG went.... plus it would be extra gloat points for TM. This is where the whole story gets fishy for me.

[Cussy]

... But Sydney has a local team to consider as well.... as well as the Kings being a bigger brand name than either Melbourne team.

Really? What's the link to the results of that survey?

[Southern Joe]

.... Easy ... compare how home teams nearly always increase their attendances when hosting Kings games as opposed to Tigers or Dragons games( with the exception of the Melb. local derbies)

[Julian]

[quote="Southern Joe":1eq33umw]... But Sydney has a local team to consider as well.... as well as the Kings being a bigger brand name than either Melbourne team.
Really? What's the link to the results of that survey?[/quote:1eq33umw]
ur jus jelos

[Cussy]

I wouldn't know. We play to a sold out stadium every week. :wink:

But I assume you know those claims to be factual and not hearsay, so I'll take your word for it.

[Silencer83]

.... Easy ... compare how home teams nearly always increase their attendances when hosting Kings games as opposed to Tigers or Dragons games( with the exception of the Melb. local derbies)

I'm pretty sure that Perth vs Melbourne games in Perth sell out just as quickly as Perth vs Sydney games - in fact the last Perth vs Sydney game seemed less packed than every other game I have been to this season. Last season they were packed games though.

[Cussy]

I'd throw the Dragons in to the mix of Perth games where the crowds are the best, because everyone wants to see Shane Heal get beaten. Plus, we've had a long standing rivaly against the Bullets so I make sure I attend that game every season.

[Julian]

Also the Adelaide rivalry.

[Cussy]

Interesting....

Austadiums.com tells me that on the 8th of December last season, the Kings were playing in Adelaide in front of a crowd of 4,183 people. The following week, the Slingers were playing in the same venue, in front of a crowd of 4,414.

On the 26th of September last year, the Kings play in T'ville for a nice and even 4500 people. Two weeks later, the Bullets played to 49 more people in the same venue.

The Kings played the Dragons at Vodafone in front of 3928 people in the middle of last October. The lesser-known Bullets had about 200 more people there a week later.

Those nearly defunct Hawks travelled to Cairns mid-November and played in front of 4,170 fans. Two weeks later only 3984 people rocked up when the Kings were in town.

[DDFan]

Any Perth/Bullets/Adelaide rivalry post, is about long-term respect.
The rest?
Junk male.

[Julian]

Saturday, January 12 Adelaide-Sydney 5,787
Wednesday, January 17 Adelaide-Perth 6,141

[Cussy]

You mean a Wednesday game, that was live on Foxtel, gets more people to it than a Saturday game against the Sydney Household Name Kings?

[Dunkin' Dan]

UR SOOO JELLIS!!

[Cram]

I would say Joe is taking his 'evidence' from games in Melbourne, where it does seem as if more people rock up for Kings games than a lot of others.

I would say this has very little to do with the 'brand' and a lot to do with the Goorjian factor (you wouldnt beleive how many former Titans fans jumped on that bandwaggon, and fairplay) as well as (for the last few years) wanting to see the top (or close to) of the ladder team.

I'd guess that to most casual basketball fans, most teams brands - even in their own cities - are quite weak.

[3point]

Point of interest dicko bg history spectres merge get the pick of 2 teams becomes magic magic merge with giants and gets the best team you could ever put on a floor anstey,pepper.dmac,maley,ronaldson,smith,drymic,mi ke kelly brett wheeler an dnever won a championship.

[DICKO]

But your point was that he attracts talent because he is the boomers coach, which clearly isn't fair.

He also attracted some real good players in that time, rather than just inheriting them through mergers. He discovered and/or attracted/built relationships with many of the guys that you named.....Smith, Drmic, Ronaldson, Anstey, etc.

But, yes, he also failed at the last hurdle a few time with very strong rosters as well.

[Cram]

Goorj has always been able to get a good % of the young aussie talent and does some great work with them. Jason is the classic example. He also manages to get some amazing loyalty out of the players that do buy into his system.

There's stories you hear about him doing individuals with a 14 year old Frank Drmic etc, that show you he puts in the time.

He has gotten better at attracting more established players since he's been with the Kings though. Whether thats due to his Boomers gig or not is debatable, but you would imagine its at least a consideration for fringe players.

[lawsy82]

wouldn't know. We play to a sold out stadium every week??


Hahaha yeah those 3500 seat capacity stadiums are hard to fill!!!!!!!

[Cussy]

4500, actually.

[lawsy82]

I wouldn't know. We play to a sold out stadium every week. :wink:

But I assume you know those claims to be factual and not hearsay, so I'll take your word for it.


And another note, TIGERS suck....

[Cussy]

I wouldn't know. We play to a sold out stadium every week. :wink:

But I assume you know those claims to be factual and not hearsay, so I'll take your word for it.


And another note, TIGERS suck....

Yeah, I agree. I f***en hate them too. Man, it's good we get along so well. I like sharing my hatred for the Tigers at the most irrelevant moments too.

[Cussy]

But your point was that he attracts talent because he is the boomers coach, which clearly isn't fair.

He also attracted some real good players in that time, rather than just inheriting them through mergers. He discovered and/or attracted/built relationships with many of the guys that you named.....Smith, Drmic, Ronaldson, Anstey, etc.

But, yes, he also failed at the last hurdle a few time with very strong rosters as well.

And another note, TIGERS suck.....

[Cussy]

I would say Joe is taking his 'evidence' from games in Melbourne, where it does seem as if more people rock up for Kings games than a lot of others.

I would say this has very little to do with the 'brand' and a lot to do with the Goorjian factor (you wouldnt beleive how many former Titans fans jumped on that bandwaggon, and fairplay) as well as (for the last few years) wanting to see the top (or close to) of the ladder team.

I'd guess that to most casual basketball fans, most teams brands - even in their own cities - are quite weak.

And another note, TIGERS suck.....

[Clips]

I wouldn't know. We play to a sold out stadium every week. :wink:

But I assume you know those claims to be factual and not hearsay, so I'll take your word for it.


And another note, TIGERS suck....WTF :?

[fan since the old snakepit]

... Hmm .

Just that none of the BG to Dragons stories seem to be starting or being picked up on by Sydney papers ... not even Timmy ... who always seems to still have an axe to grind with the Kings.

They have now. Story in today's Telegraph. Goorj saying he cant guarantee he will be at the Kings next season.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/s ... 23,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23259738-5001023,00.html)

[gangsta boo]

Well thats just made my day :? :(

[Daevo]

Sorry news indeed but it only confirms what many here have heard whispers about since last year.

[curious]

Indeed.
Bouncer's theory was incorrect.

[fahootie]

thats a shame...I love hating the Kings (and a small % of their supporters).

[DDFan]

Best city, best team, best supporters (memory fading ..... )
















RESPECT

[djmenow]

Question: When BG becomes coach of the Dragons next year, how many players will follow him to remain in good for the Boomers squad?

[Poida]

Well hopefully Smithy and Wortho :)

[nonuthin]

Goorj is a done deal with Smith, Kendall and a couple to follow. Worthington is being sought by most clubs especially Perth (home) and Crocs who will go all out for him and of course Dragons. Very slim chance to Tville though. Dragons are unsure of securing him. Perth appeals to him. Whichever way he goes he is getin Cashed up baby!!!!

[paul]

David Stiff retires at end of this season - Mottram returns to Tigers. They sign Aaron Bruce giving them a lineup of Anstey, Lampley(?) Barlow, Thomas, Bruce; Motts, Hoare, Greer, Corletto and Crosswell.

Sounds good for the Tigers - finally a point guard who can shoot (a bit)

Wortho signs with Adelaide to give them line up of Balls, Wortho, Hodge, Maher and Davidson.

Sounds good if youre from Adelaide - bench a little thin though.

Draper, Kendall and Smith to Dragons to give them lineup of Burston,import (Ellis?), Ingles, Smith and Kendall; Hobba, Holmes, Hill, Herbert and Draper.

Sounds good if youre a Dragons fan - and would prob fit in points cap given Hobba, Hill, Herbert and Ingles all count for very little.

The big issue the Dragons face with signing Goorj is he will have very little time for them until after the Olympics, meaning a slow start to the season.

Of course, if they can secure the above roster Im pretty sure they could recover from a slow start.

Of course, someone rich could buy out the Kings and keep their team together. Ahh - youve got to love a bit of Sunday morning speculation!

[Nerf Herder]

The big issue the Dragons face with signing Goorj is he will have very little time for them until after the Olympics, meaning a slow start to the season.
Has worked ok for the Kings the last few seasons... on the court at least... if you're ok with not getting any imports until halfway through the season and then possibly swapping them at the last minute as Goorj hasn't been around in the pre-season to trial them...

[3point]

If bg goes to the dragons, which looks more likley now, 2 things will happen, cowan will have to take on more finacial backers,or they will be gone in 2 years, sad but more than a punt.

[Bouncer]

Indeed.
Bouncer's theory was incorrect.

Which theory was that?

[Cussy]

Take your pick.

[curious]

Indeed.
Bouncer's theory was incorrect.
Which theory was that?
No contractual issues. I said not long ago, that there were issues. You said there wasn't.

[Bouncer]

Indeed.
Bouncer's theory was incorrect.
Which theory was that?
No contractual issues. I said not long ago, that there were issues. You said there wasn't.

This is what I said...........

[quote=curious]The Kings would need some serious ca$h to sign BG for another 5 seasons.
He didn't get paid in advance for the last 5 season's contract, why would he expect that now?

I have no knowledge of this at all, but I very much doubt that the current owner of the Kings will be around for that long.
It didn't matter for the last 5 years contract, why should it matter for this one? The shareholders may change, but the company stays the same.

As to no dispute. Who said that?
There is a contract, it is registered, it has been in effect for 4 years, so it would be hard to dispute the contract validity.[/quote:1tjybu3t]

I see nothing contradictory there.

[curious]

Nothing except BG's contracts has been broken and one would imagine now invalid.