West Sydney Razorbacks Off Season Thread

[Wallitron]

The off season has started, so lets put all the player rumours etc in the one thread.

So far we have:

Carter not looking likely to return (Source Meg, RazorJohn)
Will Bevo be back? (Source Curious)


Did I miss anything?

[Razorjohn]

Hinson not returning. (source - hinson himself)

Also when I called the club to organise tickets for the final home game I was advised that Darren Drysdale was no longer with the pigs either.

[The Oracle]

The off season has started, so lets put all the player rumours etc in the one thread.

So far we have:

Carter not looking likely to return (Source Meg, RazorJohn)
Will Bevo be back? (Source Curious)


Did I miss anything?

I believe Bevo signed for 3 years so the only possible way he would be missing would be for the owners to give him the flick!
I'll have to look up the post by Curious.

[pig fan]

John Rillie to walk out on the crocs and return to the pigs to partner Martin in the back court. (Rumour?)

[devils]

so I assume the razorbacks are fine for next season? I know they were close to folding last season, I just can't remember all the details of the new deal they signed, from memory they secured the franchise for 3 years?

[Wallitron]

I'd welcome back John Rillie, and I'd love to see him on the same team as DeVries.

Starters
Martin
Rillie
Rush
Ballinger or Ellis
Khazzouh

Bench
BJ Carter
Devries
Petrie
Knight
Rampton

Play the 4 guards in a rotation so they all average 20+ mins. Might need to play some small ball to get Knight some extra minutes.

[BlowJoggs]

3 of the best shooters in the game and noone to get them the ball?
Martin showed great promise because he is athletic, works harder than anyone, and plays to his limitations.
What's to say that he'd be the answer to the full time PG role.
People make out too much of the Martin at 1, Hinson at 2 thing.
Sure it was partly to blame for Hinson's form drop, but he struggled to adjust once he was better scouted/defended.
I'd have JR back in a heartbeat, but that'd make De Vries redundant, especially with your mythical BJ inclusion.
Re-sign Petrie, the import Pg i'm thinking of, and a dependable 4man import who can score, Rhys or a replacement, and it's playoff time baby.

[BlowJoggs]

Oh and Dann is under contract.

[alison]

I was pretty certain I heard that Troy would not be coming back too.

[Wallitron]

3 of the best shooters in the game and noone to get them the ball?
Martin showed great promise because he is athletic, works harder than anyone, and plays to his limitations.
What's to say that he'd be the answer to the full time PG role.


Firstly my team was just really a "run the shit out of it, shoot the lights out" hypothetical, not too serious.

Second, Martin was good enough to start this season, but now you want to bring in a gun PG to take that role and be a primary scorer? Martin did a great job for Hinson on two counts.
* Ball handling, don't discount the added pressure and energy it takes to bring the ball over half court.
* Defense, picking up the best guard on defense saps energy. Energy that takes away from your scoring ability.

What's his role if you have a 40min/g import PG? IMO if he's fully fit (still a sticky question) he starts.

Third, John Rillie is 36 now, combining him with Devries could work minutes wise, and he's also capable of finding people. He was the Pigs assist leader in his last season, taking over some of the load after Rucker departed. He doesn't need a point guard to find him shots, he has the range to step back and is probably one of the best off the ball movers in the game.

Fourth, BJ Carter isn't on the free agent list anyway. He's shown that he is capable running the point for the Kings though, and could get 10-15 extra minutes on a Pigs side (of most other teams in fact), plus a green light to shoot the thing.

Lastly, I don't see how Dann can really be used in that type of squad. If he's already signed I guess Petrie misses out.

[BlowJoggs]

Whoa u serious?
Hinson and Martin were an old school backcourt of just having 2 GUARDS without defining who the 1 or the 2 was, that's all I was saying.
I'm not even sure of what you are watching-
firsty BJ Carter "playing the point" is a very loose interpretation. He's usually on the court with either Draper or Kendall. Effectively, he's the 2 on offense.
Your Dann/Petrie thing baffles me. Dann's been a 2 and a part time 1. Petrie, with surprising physicality for that slight build has spent most of his time as a 4, part time 3.
Petrie has to be re-signed.
I envision a guard rotation of Import, Martin, Dann and whoever takes Rhys' place.

[razors_girl23]

I'd wet my pants if Rillie came back.

[glockers]

I'd love Rillie back at the Razorbacks and I am a Kings fan.

Cesar is correct about BJ and I am a BJ fan. The guy is a great shooter and plays within the offence, but he does not run the offence.

[Wallitron]

Whoa u serious?


Mate, you're offering nothing in response. All you've said is they need an Import PG and Petrie has to be resigned. Sounds like you're proposing pretty much the same team as last year.

By the way, I predicted that Razorbacks team would win 8 games, where did you have them again? ;)

[Wallitron]

Cesar is correct about BJ and I am a BJ fan. The guy is a great shooter and plays within the offence, but he does not run the offence.

I wasn't referring to what he's doing this season. Didn't he fill in at point during a Kings winning streak a couple of seasons back? I think it was either when Martin or Kendall was out?

Tell me this, would BJ make a better backup than Rhys Carter? My gut feeling is yes. Can I just point out again that BJ Carter is not a free agent.

[Razorjohn]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Rillie back. I think we could do alot better.

[BlowJoggs]

I don't want to propose too radical a change - because I think with a healthy D Martin and an import big instead of Troy, along with greater output from everyone else that we would likely be playoff bound.

Fark the curious-manhunt let me just name names of who I'd sign if it were me doing the fun stuff.

Ed Scott
Damian Martin
Graeme Dann
Import Forward
Julian Khazzou
Liam Rush
Tony Rampton
Drew Williamson
Matt Knight
Anthony Petrie

I would still implement some of the pressure D and transition offense but maybe start to build a bit more of halfcourt stuff, because essentially that is what will win the big games.

10 man rotations are great but it's hard to get it going consistently. I'd look at trying to get an 8 man core.

I'd run Ed Scott and Graeme to start in the backcourt but Damian Martin would play starter's minutes and possibly play more minutes than Graeme. Drew Williamson is versatile and would be able to cover 1-3 when needed. In times of small ball, Graeme can switch to the front court.

Petrie's presence alone will keep Rush on his toes to serve as a reminder that NBL stardom has to be earnt, nothing is given. If they can get a decent scoring 4 man, it's one of the league's best front court.

He was much maligned but I like Rodney Elliott. Wise (and overly large) head and scores and rebounds well. He provides what Rampton and Khazzou and in turn they provide what Elliott doesn't.

I do question if it'd be a bit of a logjam at the 4 spot with an Import, Knight and Petrie but with all the running that the team is likely to do, I think it'd be good to have a nice supply of bigs to rotate.

[Wallitron]

I do question if it'd be a bit of a logjam at the 4 spot with an Import, Knight and Petrie but with all the running that the team is likely to do, I think it'd be good to have a nice supply of bigs to rotate.

Not too shabby, but if Rillie is available I'd definitely try and work him into the squad somewhere.

Scoring wise you'd struggle to replace the 37 points a game Hinson and Devries gave us. Unless your PF is an absolute monster playing big minutes, and Knight/Petrie like court side seats.


serve as a reminder that NBL stardom has to be earnt

You say that and then throw Dann a starting gig? :)

[fan since the old snakepit]

If I had an import 4 then Knight and Jules would be sharing time in the 5 and Rampton would enter the court only if on occasion I wanted him to give a hard foul or there was an injury or other bigs were in foul trouble. After watching him regularly at the Hawks and 3 times live plus the Pigs games on Fox this season I really dont see what he offers. Import 4 with Petrie as his backup and Knight spending some time there works towards that 8 man rotation Cez was talking about.
I totally agree with what was said about Bevos 10 man theory. After watching the Pigs - Hawks game recently I think I alluded to his constant quick subbing as a disruption to the flow of the team. He has lost lots of games in the second half of the season and does not seem to have tried to alter the teams style when it was obviously no longer affective.

[basketballguru]

Whilst the Pigs did very well , 10-20 needs improvment . The club doesn't have many fans left, and they won't continue to watch a team that is out of their depth .

I feel for some of their guys , but clearly the turning point was Damian's knee injury , once he went down , the club went 4-16 , which is about 11th or 12th for clubs during that span . Staggering for a guy who was averaging what 7ppg ???

So while Bevo has a lot of positives ... the emergence of Matt Knight , the continued improvement of Liam Rush , and just better attitude hands down , there's still much to do .

Personally , I'd like to see the following .

I'd like to see Darnell and TCM retained if Martyn gets fully healthy as I believe this team with that configuration ( Martyn and Hinson at guards with TCM off the bench ) , needs to be given another chance .

I'd like to see Rampton punted - he's so limited it's not funny , and have a serious crack at luring someone else out of college ( Martin Iti?? ) to take his place . He just seems stiff . Additionally , Rhys Carter needs to play less minutes , as does Dann ( sorry Cesar ) because if they are getting 20 and 30 mins respectively we are looking like an ABA team .

I'd like to see Anthony Petrie continue his good work . I'd like to big Jules in the weights room.

I'd also like Bevo to see this thing through , it would be a shame if some of the rumour mongering ( Adelaide ? Sydney ? ) was true .

[Da Houndawg #55]

Whilst the Pigs did very well , 10-20 needs improvment . The club doesn't have many fans left, and they won't continue to watch a team that is out of their depth .

I feel for some of their guys , but clearly the turning point was Damian's knee injury , once he went down , the club went 4-16 , which is about 11th or 12th for clubs during that span . Staggering for a guy who was averaging what 7ppg ???

So while Bevo has a lot of positives ... the emergence of Matt Knight , the continued improvement of Liam Rush , and just better attitude hands down , there's still much to do .

Personally , I'd like to see the following .

I'd like to see Darnell and TCM retained if Martyn gets fully healthy as I believe this team with that configuration ( Martyn and Hinson at guards with TCM off the bench ) , needs to be given another chance .

I'd like to see Rampton punted - he's so limited it's not funny , and have a serious crack at luring someone else out of college ( Martin Iti?? ) to take his place . He just seems stiff . Additionally , Rhys Carter needs to play less minutes , as does Dann ( sorry Cesar ) because if they are getting 20 and 30 mins respectively we are looking like an ABA team .

I'd like to see Anthony Petrie continue his good work . I'd like to big Jules in the weights room.

I'd also like Bevo to see this thing through , it would be a shame if some of the rumour mongering ( Adelaide ? Sydney ? ) was true .
There were times when it looked like Rampton was the only guy putting any effort in on the floor... With the kind of hustle philosophy that was working for them at the start of the year I'd hate to pull the plug and punish one of the guys who WAS stil putting in when things looked grim after Martin got hurt.

I also don't know that I'd be sending Dann a starting gig whilst simultaneously labeling the guy who he'd be replacing as lazy...

[meg]

Hound, maybe you haven't seen enough Razors games this season. Rampton is the most frustrating player...stupid fouls, can't make a layup and always makes the worst decision in any situation. He had one decent game this season...not good enough in my books.
Really, the only things going for him are that his wife and kid are cute.

[Da Houndawg #55]

Hound, maybe you haven't seen enough Razors games this season. Rampton is the most frustrating player...stupid fouls, can't make a layup and always makes the worst decision in any situation. He had one decent game this season...not good enough in my books.
Really, the only things going for him are that his wife and kid are cute.
I've seen enough of him to know how frustrating he can be, but I still think ditching him is a pretty big statement in the wrong direction.

[Wallitron]

I don't think I saw Rampton on the free agent list? Already signed I suppose.

[Da Houndawg #55]

I don't think I saw Rampton on the free agent list? Already signed I suppose.
That's why I said ditching rather than letting him go.

Khazzouh's effort is a concern to me... that alone would be reason enough for me to hang on to Rampton.

[HunterPirates]

Khazzouh's effort is a concern to me... that alone would be reason enough for me to hang on to Rampton.

He just looks to soft to me and uncoached, Maybe the Razors need to get Kareem Abdul Jabar in to work with him :wink: :wink:

[Nerf Herder]

I haven't seen too many Pigs games this season, but I've seen enough to know that Rampton is useless and would agree with meg wholeheartedly... Since they had a tendency to fall off a bit in the 2nd half, is it a matter of on-court leadership with a younger team? Is Darnell that much of a leader (again, haven't seen that many games) or is he more of a guy to take a game over and lead by example? Would the Pigs benefit more from a more seasoned actual true PG who can actually help develop the team more?

Would be good to see Petrie develop more as watching his games he's got some great moves and a huge amount of potential, just needs to get some more time and experience, I guess... Khazzouh REALLY needs to bulk up and not turn into a Ben Melmuth type player... He's got great reach, but I reckon even I'D be able to push him around under the basket... I don't see Dann having a starter role, I think that's just madness... To be honest he wouldn't make any other team and all I can say about his game this season is that he hasn't fallen to bits like the last few seasons... I guess some more maturity, but skills are sorely lacking...

Not that I'm an expert, but it would be great to see them get a guard and either a 5 or 4/5 import combo, but can they afford them? Wasn't one of the reasons that they got TCM this year was that he'd have been cheaper than imports that weren't already playing over here? (not disrespecting his huge contributions to the season, just thinking back to pre-season and their lack of available cash...

I think 10-20 is a great result for this season, and considering some of the big coin flip games they've had, they could have been at least 13-17, I'm sure cracking .500 next season should be their minimum goal, if not making a serious playoff challenge if they can develop their younger talent and get some quality imports...

[Optimal Crime]

I like how people "haven't seen many pigs games" but are quick to criticise Dann. In the second half of the season he had some very good games, and made a lot happen when he had the ball in his hands.

Yes he has a low bball IQ at times (in that he prefers fancy to simple) but to say his skills are lacking is questionable.

[BlowJoggs]

I was going to ignore it, as you say when it comes from people that have probably watched 3 games or less it's a bit hard to take it seriously - also funny how I'm getting crapped on for suggesting that he should start.

Despite the fact that when Martin went down, the starting backcourt was Hinson and Dann with De Vries coming off the bench for instant offense. Dann has been a reliable conveyance this year for Bevo and the coach has repaid him with starting him. If he can learn to finish around the hoop he shouldn't have too much problem becoming a 30mpg player.

[Wallitron]

I like how people "haven't seen many pigs games" but are quick to criticise Dann.


Gee wonder why, the team goes 4-16 in the second half of the season. Pigs fans have seen much of that kind of stuff before.

What's next, bring back Trahair, McGregor, Rigby with the likes of Dann and Carter. Entire games with the crowd on the edge of their seat, all two of them. We might even get two or three games on Foxtel.

[Nerf Herder]

I've seen about 5 Pigs games this season and like I was eluding to, his game improved this season to the point where I didn't cringe everytime I saw him with the ball, but still, that's hardly enough to warrant a preferred starting role... that being said, his effort can't be questioned... and maybe I just saw his worst 5 games... I doubt it, though...

[BlowJoggs]

He's good enough to be a dependable 25 mpg player and if he works on the things that Bevo wants him to work on during the Waratah season he can bump it up to 30mpg.

We're getting too caught up on the "starter's" tag again, it just means the guy who is in the game when the ball tips off. And Bevo has shown that he likes Dann starting at that 2 spot - probably because GD normally gets off to a good start but at times, can taper off in intensity which can lead to mental errors. His strengths (getting to the rack, strong ball handling for his size creating mismatches, passing) are still there and getting more fundamentally sound under Bevo. I think this year was a positive step and if you saw him all season, I've no real concern about him being a core-guard in a 3-guard rotation if the other 2 guards are Damian Martin and a stud import.

I also just read the Rampton hate - WOW. Obviously the guy doesn't drip all-natural basketball talent, but how can anyone REALLY watching the game not see that he REEKS of PURE HUSTLE AND DETERMINATION. I have no problem with him being a 10-15 mpg player, he is a good defender (both man and weakside), is very physical, plays within his limits (yes he's very limited, duh) and is a legit big man in this league. He's no Chris Anstey, no Ben Pepper, heck he's no Ian Crosswhite - but Bevo's not asking him to be. He's there to show the young Razors bigs how to play hard, train hard and put your body on the line.

If Khazzou and Knight do the things Bevmeister has allocated them for their off-season homework and they possibly bring in an import forward, Tony's minutes will reduce and he will be more of the locker-room veteran than a regular sub. No problem with that.

Anyway, first things first Mr Cadee - DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO BRING BEVO BACK, PLEASE!

[coachsteve]

Hinson not returning. (source - hinson himself)

Also when I called the club to organise tickets for the final home game I was advised that Darren Drysdale was no longer with the pigs either.

i believe darren drysdale hasnt been with the pigs for a lot longer than before the last home game!

[coachsteve]

gotta hand it to the pigs though - 5 wins in 2006/7, 10 in 07/08!
id say thats decent improvement, and given the lack of fan support, lack of sponsorship and corporate support, lack of MEDIA support and lack of front office personel, and lack of superstar athletes on the team, id say that 10 wins is about what the team would be happy with.

after all, we nearly lost the team altogether!!!

Imagine what happens now, this group has gelled over the year, come back work hard, have the same level of improvement and double the wins column again??? 20-10 in 2008/09 - certainly achievable.

It certainly was refreshing to see an upbeat style of defence on the floor... too bad some individuals got too big for their own good and stopped playing the team basketball that had the piggies at 6-4.

[HunterPirates]

lack of MEDIA support

I never really thought about it, but I buy the Telegraph every day i work and I have never read about the Razors only the Kings!

[Hogsbreath]

Pigs have applied to NBL to play home games out of Penriff stadium. A good move in my opinion. Let's go back to cheap as chips venue, increase capacity to 2500 and try and get that filled weekly.

The Razorbacks cannot make money paying for the SSC and filling it with 1000 people. Back to a beer budget.

[razors_girl23]

lack of MEDIA support

I never really thought about it, but I buy the Telegraph every day i work and I have never read about the Razors only the Kings!

Why would you put yourself through that every day? :lol:

[Bouncer]

Is Penrith closer for you :roll:

[razors_girl23]

Omg, piss off you moron.

But the answer is yes.

Point?

[razors_girl23]

"We will have to consider it - the Razorbacks have sent me an application which will go before our board," Harmison said.

"We also have to be aware of any issues Fox Sports may have with this."


Why the fuck would they care? They showed a total of how many Razors games this season?

[Hogsbreath]

Is Penrith closer for you :roll:

Homebush is closr for me and although I'd prefer to watch games at the SSC I am thinking about the viability of the club.

I'd rather have a team to watch playing out of Penrith than an extinct team that used to play at the SSC.

[glockers]

I used to live in the Hills District and as kings fan barely made it to Pigs games.

I guess I would also go to Penrith really. I used to love going out to Penrith to work Panthers games and eat donuts.

Homebush is easier though.

[Skindog the Hawk]

Pigs have applied to NBL to play home games out of Penriff stadium. A good move in my opinion. Let's go back to cheap as chips venue, increase capacity to 2500 and try and get that filled weekly.

The Razorbacks cannot make money paying for the SSC and filling it with 1000 people. Back to a beer budget.

Bad decision, it will result in the extinction of the team in the current form at some stage in the future.

Think about it this way - Penrith is a good 45 minutes from Campbelltown, Liverpool, Hornsby and 30 minutes from the Hills and Bankstown districts, with sweet fuck-all surrounding the stadium (which is in Cambridge Park, btw). WTF would you want to go?

If they stay at the SSC (and I think they should) then you need to market the team. Simple.

SD.

[Daevo]

I agree SD (chalk up another one...gee, I'm getting worried :P).

Penriff stadium is great for local comp & one of the better basketball facilities in Sydney as far as local associations go but it's a big step backwards in terms of NBL venues & very isolated. Hopefully the locals will get behind the move & start supporting games....if that happens plus a few diehard fans are willing to make the trek way out west then maybe they might get away with this move. I see it only as an interim solution however since they will eventually need a better venue closer to public transport & other facilities (maybe on the Panthers site *hint*).

[curious]

Why should they be allowed to play out of Penrith?
Because they are loising money?
Since when is a 2000 seat stadium acceptable?
I notice that the NBL are consulting Fox on the move. Good idea.
Hell let the NBL expand to Darwin and let them play in the 1500 seat stadium there too.
Back to the National Bush League.
1000 in Singapore. 1500 in Darwin and less than 1000 in W Sydney.
Moving there is going to guarantee crowd increases? I would have thought it would alienate the loyal fans they have now.

[gangsta boo]

So with the coach possibly moving on and the teams owners wanting to move to a poor venue with no transport options other than a car are the Pigs also in very deep trouble?

[Razorjohn]

I can not renew my season pass if they play out of penrith. Right now I work 5 minutes from homebush and getting to games after work is easy, but with traffic there is no way I can make the weekly games during the season. It just wouldn't make sence for me to buy a season pass.

I must say I will be very disapointed though. I have missed all of 2 home games in the past 6 years.

[Wallitron]

Back to the National Bush League

I'd take a self supporting bush league over a team folding every season any day. Not to mention that a lower cost, lower salary cap league would be more competitive, not just a Tigers, Kings, Bullets love fest.

I agree with SD though, the State Sports Centre needs to be the home, take a few lower profile games to Penrith if needed.

[Bouncer]

Back to the National Bush League

I'd take a self supporting bush league over a team folding every season any day. Not to mention that a lower cost, lower salary cap league would be more competitive, not just a Tigers, Kings, Bullets love fest.

HUH :?:

How will lowering the salary cap make it any more competive then it is now? The NBL won't, can't, haven't enforced the one they have now. So the cheaters will still prosper.:oops:

[Wallitron]

How will lowering the salary cap make it any more competive then it is now? The NBL won't, can't, haven't enforced the one they have now. So the cheaters will still prosper.:oops:

Ok, lets look at the reverse then, how will raising the salary cap, as they did this season make it more competitive?

Enforcement should be done using a reduced points cap, probably around 55-60 points per team.

[meg]

I cannot see how we would ever get to games unless they were afternoon weekend ones. It would have to be at least 1 and a half hours drive each way from Leichhardt, and the kids could not cope with that.

[razors45]

I've lived near Penrith for nearly 10 years now and have been going to games in Liverpool & Homebush without fail. I'm not saying that Cambridge Park is the ideal venue, but to me, if you want to watch your team play you'd travel to wherever they were playing.

[gangsta boo]

But theres no public transport there? How do they cater for that?

[Daevo]

I cannot see how we would ever get to games unless they were afternoon weekend ones. It would have to be at least 1 and a half hours drive each way from Leichhardt
You need a new car meg :P Seriously, you should be able to comfortably make the trip from Leichhardt to the stadium at Cambridge Pk in less than an hour (outside of peak hour anyway). That's still what most people consider a long drive but not terribly so.

Parking at the venue is going to be a challenge....I recall when the netball was played there, local derby games between the 2 Sydney teams would see cars parked all around local streets & even the empty field next door was filled to overflowing. As I said earlier, public transport access is poor to non-existent which I see as a major issue. If Westbus is still a sponsor then perhaps they could run a shuttle from Penrith railway station. You can walk from Kingswood station but it's a fair hike & probably not one most people would want to do at night.

[coachsteve]

Pigs have applied to NBL to play home games out of Penriff stadium. A good move in my opinion. Let's go back to cheap as chips venue, increase capacity to 2500 and try and get that filled weekly.

The Razorbacks cannot make money paying for the SSC and filling it with 1000 people. Back to a beer budget.

Bad decision, it will result in the extinction of the team in the current form at some stage in the future.

Think about it this way - Penrith is a good 45 minutes from Campbelltown, Liverpool, Hornsby and 30 minutes from the Hills and Bankstown districts, with sweet (Extremely Naughty Word!)-all surrounding the stadium (which is in Cambridge Park, btw). WTF would you want to go?

If they stay at the SSC (and I think they should) then you need to market the team. Simple.

SD.
what and homebush aint 45 min from Penrith, Campbelltown, 30 from Livo? ok, maybe 20min from Bankstown - IF THERES NO DAMN TRAFFIC on silverwater rd... not to mention tolls on M7 and M4 to get to the game from C'Town...
and then the $15 parking fee...

just means that Basketball heads into the TRUE west.

at least it attempts to bring out situations where the game is SOLD OUT (read Whitlam Centre) rather than losing money on empty seats.
And as far as Fox is concerned . i think it was 3 or 4 games - and 2 of those were road games in NZ shown through Maori TV.

Once people pay the $25 or whatever game ticket, saving that extra $25 on tolls, parking and BS might mean more people can get to the game...
once it starts selling out, then lets go after these developers in the new Camden / Oran Park / Luddenham areas for Section 94 funds to build a new stadium!

not a bad idea with some 250,000 people expected in the area in the next 10 years!

[coachsteve]

But theres no public transport there? How do they cater for that?

im sure a team sponsored by westbus could arrange something with westbus to shuttle run from kingswood or penrith rail stations...

admittingly parking will become an issue -

after all, thats what happens with the Cronulla Sharks in the NRL (free bus from Engadine to Wolloware!!!) and also games at Moore park - shuttle bus from Central... and parking there is a god damn nightmare too! but people still go...

[coachsteve]

I cannot see how we would ever get to games unless they were afternoon weekend ones. It would have to be at least 1 and a half hours drive each way from Leichhardt
You need a new car meg :P Seriously, you should be able to comfortably make the trip from Leichhardt to the stadium at Cambridge Pk in less than an hour (outside of peak hour anyway). That's still what most people consider a long drive but not terribly so.

.

how many people drive about an hour to get to work and home again every day? i know i do!

might mean that the pigs can tipoff at 8pm or 8.30pm to cater for fans travelling back from the city (razorjohn) - or not play mid-week games.

[Hogsbreath]

Back to the National Bush League.

I believe getting all teams financially viable is the first step. Get back to tin sheds if that will make a team begin to show in the black.

I also think being located at Penrith will bring more of a community ownership and identity to the team. I am sure the Panthers will come on board with some type of sponsorship.

It's further for me to travel however I would certainly be willing to do it.

Cut the crap about turning the league into a "bush league". That upper class snobbery is what has been bringing the league down over the last 10 years especially the Kings

We are a lower tier sport in this country so we need to stop thinking we should be matching it with NRL, Super 14 or AFL. Basketball needs to rebuild if doing so means playing out of sheds to start then so be it.

I used to love watching games out of Liverpool in the early days. The building used to rock.

[Daevo]

ABC TV used to telecast the Netball when it was played at Penriff so I don't see why Fox would have an issue (they cost more than 8c a day after all :P). There used to be a big dome light over the main court that I think was needed for TV broadcasts since the stadium lights weren't good enough & I think the ABC has since removed it so that might need to be replaced.

The issue with travel Steve is that while Penriff might be the TRUE west, it is right on the outer fringe of the west so hardly a central location for greater Sydney. Homebush is a lot more central (the demographic centre of Sydney used to be Silverwater but I think it's now around Parramatta). Remember too that back in the Whitlam Centre days, the Pigs were very much a Bankstown/Liverpool venture so the stadium was close to their target heartland. The fan base is more scattered these days so it's only logical that a more central venue would be preferred by many to Penriff.

I agree a ~1 hour trip is pretty standard in Sydney dring peak hour so you'd think people would be used to it. Outside of peak hour, there wouldn't be too many places in greater Sydney more than an hour's drive from the stadium. I live a good 20 minutes further away from the city than Penriff yet can normally get to the EntCent for Kings games in not much over an hour. I've noticed though that there is some sort of psychological barrier people seem to have about heading out to the fringes of town as opposed to going towards the centre.

[Skindog the Hawk]

+1 on all counts Daevo - in response to Coachsteve, Homebush is central to pretty much the whole of Sydney whereas Penrith is on the fringes and (unless you wanna pay your $7 each way) still 45 minutes from Campbelltown with nothing to do post-game (except head to Panthers and get blotto with the locals...:?)

Moving to Penrith equals certain death for the West Sydney Panther...sorry, Razorbacks.

SD.

[boz_novocastrian]

what is the latest with the liverpool stadium

in terms of playing roster

carter and dann i would not resign

[meg]

what is the latest with the liverpool stadium

in terms of playing roster

carter and dann i would not resign

Dann will be back. I doubt Carter will.

[Skindog the Hawk]

what is the latest with the liverpool stadium

The OASIS concept is dead and buried and has been for several years.

SD.

[HunterPirates]

The SSC is a good venue, relatively easy to find for those Razorbacks from out of town, just need to get more people in there.

Surely more can be done to get people from outwest to go to games.

[glockers]

I will most likely be mocked. But I have suggested in the past NorWest. Hillsong bought the Ice Hockey centre there a while back for future growth. They don't seem to use it, but you could easily convert it into a 4000 person basketball facility.Get rid of the ice hockey ring, bring forward the seating and add a stand on the opposite side.

Maybe I am a crazy man, but Norwest is closer than Penrith and drags in the whole North West corridor. Easy to get to from the Parra, Carlingford, Blacktown, Hills District and Rouse Hill areas.

But it will never happen. The league lacks visionaries.

[fan since the old snakepit]

Great idea. Hills and Hornsby are also large growth areas basketball wise. Both the junior rep programs there are on the rise.
How accessable is it to public transport though?


Just imagine. The "Hillsong Hogs" with Jason Smith as their first captain, doing a bit of recruiting for the big fellow upstairs at halftime. :lol:

[Dagger]

what is the latest with the liverpool stadium



Went past there last week and theres a huge netball venue there now... a building, lights and 20 odd courts.

[Da Houndawg #55]

what is the latest with the liverpool stadium

in terms of playing roster

carter and dann i would not resign
Dann showed me more than enough to suggest he's earned a slot on this team.

What that role is though, you'd have to wait for the conclusion of the off season.

He can be frustrating as hell though, has the athleticism to create HUGE spaces for himself (enough athleticism that at times he creates those huge spaces ABOVE opposing defenders) and stuffs the finish on a regular basis. If he could finish, Jesus he'd be nice.

Then you'd just have to work on his head...

[Optimal Crime]

Dann was close to the teams best baller handler and passer at the end of the season.

[The Oracle]

I will most likely be mocked. But I have suggested in the past NorWest. Hillsong bought the Ice Hockey centre there a while back for future growth. They don't seem to use it, but you could easily convert it into a 4000 person basketball facility.Get rid of the ice hockey ring, bring forward the seating and add a stand on the opposite side.

Maybe I am a crazy man, but Norwest is closer than Penrith and drags in the whole North West corridor. Easy to get to from the Parra, Carlingford, Blacktown, Hills District and Rouse Hill areas.

But it will never happen. The league lacks visionaries.

Not the worst suggestion in this thread!
Plus, let's get this thread back onto Page 1 :lol:

[havrilla the gorilla]

Heard the only Pigs that are returning next season are the ones that don't get lost on the way to Penrith.

They will be flying to away matches on planes that resembles the Cleveland Indians plane in the film Major League.

Heard Hinson(AKA Little Mike Tyson) left because he didn't win the Hummer.

:o

[meg]

Heard the only Pigs that are returning next season are the ones that don't get lost on the way to Penrith.

They will be flying to away matches on planes that resembles the Cleveland Indians plane in the film Major League.

Heard Hinson(AKA Little Mike Tyson) left because he didn't win the Hummer.

:o

He left long before the MVP was announced. He is playing in Puerto Rico at the moment, I think.

[boz_novocastrian]

whats the rehab progress with damian martin going. he proved to be a starter in this league. if completely healthy i would keep devries and go for an import 3/4

carter nope i dont think will be back. same with reed (as he cant be classed as dp 2 old)

[havrilla the gorilla]

Heard the only Pigs that are returning next season are the ones that don't get lost on the way to Penrith.

They will be flying to away matches on planes that resembles the Cleveland Indians plane in the film Major League.

Heard Hinson(AKA Little Mike Tyson) left because he didn't win the Hummer.

:o

He left long before the MVP was announced. He is playing in Puerto Rico at the moment, I think.

I was kidding dude....need to work on my sarcasm me thinks :P

[boz_novocastrian]

khazzouh should be starting or getting starter equivalent minutes over mt taranaki bro in tony rampton

[HunterPirates]

Josh Clifford top scored for the Mustangs against Norths in the ABA with 19, although Maitland lost.

[alison]

Heard the only Pigs that are returning next season are the ones that don't get lost on the way to Penrith.

They will be flying to away matches on planes that resembles the Cleveland Indians plane in the film Major League.

Heard Hinson(AKA Little Mike Tyson) left because he didn't win the Hummer.

:o

He left long before the MVP was announced. He is playing in Puerto Rico at the moment, I think.

yeah, he's playing in Puerto Rico at the moment with Kavossy Franklin...so fars he's had a good first game and a average 2nd.

[alison]

Josh Clifford top scored for the Mustangs against Norths in the ABA with 19, although Maitland lost.that's good news Joshy will also be with the Razors next season.

[boz_novocastrian]

would it be fair to say the only definites not to return are rhys carter and clint reed

[alison]

would it be fair to say the only definites not to return are rhys carter and clint reed and Darnell.

[Stanley]

Pig fans may be interested to know Darnell Hinson has teamed up with Kavossy Franklin in the Puerto Rican league.

They seem to be playing a lot fewer minutes than the locals in the squad, and attempting a LOT less shots....

They've had 6 of 7 games on the road, and just picked up their second win.

First win was against Angelo Reyes!

http://www.wollongonghawks.com.au/hawks/franklin-bsn-week-1.html

http://www.wollongonghawks.com.au/hawks/franklin-bsn-update-2.html

[BlowJoggs]

BUMP this back up, SHOUT IT, SHOUT IT.

Wake up Mr Cadee. If you have positive news to alert the fans (ya know, them blokes who turn up and pay to get in) re: a certain Fanta pants possibly coming back to finish what he started, PLEASE ANNOUNCE IT.

For anyone who cares about the Razors, check out G Deezy in the WABL or keep your eye out for any other possible talents that might find themselves rockin the Razor jersey next season (which is in dire need of a revamp btw).

[Hogsbreath]

Wake up Mr Cadee. ).

Cez, I thought with your contacts you would know that Mr Cadee has left the building. I repeat, Mr Cadee has left the building.

A new CEO is in place but I dont know who it is.

[Daevo]

BUMP this back up, SHOUT IT, SHOUT IT.

Wake up Mr Cadee.
Yep Ces, I don't think there is anybody at home right now .....Mr Cadee has left the building :wink:

[curious]

Maybe there's some hope now.

[BlowJoggs]

Yeah my bad.
Well it seems like the new dude, with NRL management experience might bring about exciting changes.

[meg]

Funny, isn't it, that the Razorbacks aren't taking this opportunity with the Kings being in such turmoil to SHOUT IT indeed.
As far as I know, we WILL be back next season, we DO know who our coach will be and we HAVE a reasonably firm management base.
Now is the time to grab those disgruntled Kings fans, particularly if Voldemort gets the job!

[curious]

Now is the time to grab those disgruntled Kings fans, particularly if Voldemort gets the job!
You wish.
Smyth was never in consideration.
Let him coach the 'Backs.
Enjoy.

[Wallitron]

Is Smyth Voldemort, I'm a little behind and assumed you meant Stacker.

I'd be happy with Bevo or Smyth, as long as they have some players it's entertaining basketball.

[Razorjohn]

As some have stated Cadee has quit the Pigs.

I also heard that Hinson is close to signing a new contract with the Pigs, along with a new import, so no more DeVries.

[The Oracle]

Yeah my bad.
Well it seems like the new dude, with NRL management experience might bring about exciting changes.

NRL experience?
I still haven't seen who it is!

[sydneyhooper]

i will be glad if hinson decides to come back i wonder what made him change his mind? its a shame about de vries though

[meg]

i will be glad if hinson decides to come back i wonder what made him change his mind? its a shame about de vries though


Hmmm...Sydney or Costa Rica?

[Razorjohn]

i will be glad if hinson decides to come back i wonder what made him change his mind? its a shame about de vries though

Money. They didn't offer him what he was after late last year but now what they are offering is in the right ball park.

His is still waiting to find out an offer from a euro club as well i believe. Once it comes in he will make a choice.

[Skindog the Hawk]

Robbie Cadee leaves West Sydney, joins BNSW (http://www.nswbasketball.net.au/documents/robbiecadeerelease.pdf)

I assume this may sound the beginning of the end???

SD.

[Daevo]

Can a Leopard change its spots? I think not.

[SizzleChest]

Robbie Cadee leaves West Sydney, joins BNSW (http://www.nswbasketball.net.au/documents/robbiecadeerelease.pdf)

I assume this may sound the beginning of the end???

SD.

Very sad news indeed. Robbie is a Basketball genius who has had the misfortune of trying to attract a non willing public to part with their money and come and support the game. It's a shame more of the locals did't get off their fat arses and come and support the team.

Anyway, kudos to you Robbie. I for one appreciate all you have done for Basketball particularly Bankstown. I have been following you since the Early days at Bankstown, then the West Stars, then the Slammers and finally the Razorbacks.

People who have a go at you have their head up their arse and are proving beyond all doubt they know nothing about Basketball or how it runs.

All the best in the new job.

[Daevo]

Anyway, kudos to you Robbie. I for one appreciate all you have done for Basketball particularly Bankstown. I have been following you since the Early days at Bankstown, then the West Stars, then the Slammers and finally the Razorbacks.

People who have a go at you have their head up their arse and are proving beyond all doubt they know nothing about Basketball or how it runs.
Like Robbie :P :wink:

I have to admit he tried....at first anyway. The last few years have pretty much been treading water.

[pj]

Is this correct, for the second season in a row, the WSR fail to present or even announce any team awards for the NBL season?
Or have I missed them somewhere?
How hard is it to just follow the points given out by the NBL to your own players, if you don't want to have your own system?

[glockers]

BNSW is such a shambles it makes the NBL clubs look like models of success.

Caddee might actually achieve more by helping turn BNSW around so it is no longer a joke.

[Wallitron]

I have to admit he tried....at first anyway. The last few years have pretty much been treading water.

Would I be right in saying that you start treading water so you don't drown? I don't get why treading water gets such a bad rep. :)

[Daevo]

You don't make much progress treading water....in fact if the tide is flowing against you, you end up going backwards. Sure it's better than sinking but not what I'd call progressive.

[Judge_Dredd]

And makes it hard to do a PB.

[Da Houndawg #55]

Petrie gone. I think that would mean the tide is indeed flowing against them.

When players flow away from your team and INTO Brisbane, it makes you think...

[Judge_Dredd]

Petrie seemed to want out badly -- he threw himself at several other teams ("contract flopping"?) before signing with Brisbane.

Not a good sign at all -- I was hoping that this young team would stick and grwo together, with Bevo the right coach in those circumstances.

JD

[Stumps]

Petrie gone. I think that would mean the tide is indeed flowing against them.

When players flow away from your team and INTO Brisbane, it makes you think...
... that it's the mid 00s again?

[Hogsbreath]

I get the feeling that Petrie wasn't offered a new contract with the Pigs. Bevo didn't mention him at all in his plans for next season when he said that Dann, Martin, Knight, Rush, Rampton and Jules were all returning and a decision had yet to be made on the imports.

[Wallitron]

Any news on the health of Martin?

[BlowJoggs]

I get the feeling that Petrie wasn't offered a new contract with the Pigs. Bevo didn't mention him at all in his plans for next season when he said that Dann, Martin, Knight, Rush, Rampton and Jules were all returning and a decision had yet to be made on the imports.

Bevo would have realised how much of a find Petrie is, at the end of the day he opted for Brisbane.

Them's the breaks and it's a tough one, I think Petrie's going to forge a strong NBL career.

I know a Sydney local has been pretty much signed but nothing has been announced, it's not a bad signing.

Still, the imports will determine this team's success as well as the development of the young Aussies. Dann's looking OK in the average Waratah comp, not quite dominating but playing well without breaking a sweat.

[King of Kings]

I get the feeling that Petrie wasn't offered a new contract with the Pigs. Bevo didn't mention him at all in his plans for next season when he said that Dann, Martin, Knight, Rush, Rampton and Jules were all returning and a decision had yet to be made on the imports.

Bevo would have realised how much of a find Petrie is, at the end of the day he opted for Brisbane.

Them's the breaks and it's a tough one, I think Petrie's going to forge a strong NBL career.

I know a Sydney local has been pretty much signed but nothing has been announced, it's not a bad signing.

Still, the imports will determine this team's success as well as the development of the young Aussies. Dann's looking OK in the average Waratah comp, not quite dominating but playing well without breaking a sweat.

Cesar. What you are a Pigs fan now? I know you were into Darnell Hinson last season, but!

[razors_girl23]

He's a fan of the GAME.

Now go back to your 289087 page threads.

[curious]

I get the feeling that Petrie wasn't offered a new contract with the Pigs. Bevo didn't mention him at all in his plans for next season when he said that Dann, Martin, Knight, Rush, Rampton and Jules were all returning and a decision had yet to be made on the imports.

I have said it elsewhere that Petrie was offered a contract elsewhere, so I guess Bevo didn't want him
Of course he's gone to the Bullets now.
In the SEABL a great player for the Gunners over a long time and hopefully he will have a bright future ahead of him.
Good luck to him.

[meg]

I found Petrie an incredibly frustrating player to watch. For every great play, he'd make two terrible decisions. Hope he finds his groove with Brisvegas.

[SizzleChest]

I found Petrie an incredibly frustrating player to watch. For every great play, he'd make two terrible decisions. Hope he finds his groove with Brisvegas.

Totally agree.

I think he was used to being the goto guy and needed a lot of touches which he didn't get with the Razorbacks.
I liked his no bullshit approach but like Meg says a ltlle frustrating at times. I felt really sorry for Clint last year because if he had of gotten the same minutes (in the same position :-( ) I feel Clint would have made more of the oportunity.

[glockers]

Im not so sure with Clint. I believe he is a wasted talent on that team, but I also think he might not suit the Bevo system as much as Cal's. I think he has alot to offer on the right team and has heaps of potential though.

[Wallitron]

Two very different players. Petrie is a flat out scorer, but likes to work within 15 feet of the bucket. Undersized compared to most players with that game, but still easily competes at NBL level.

Clint Reed (when healthy) is an athletic slasher, from a mold similar to a Newley maybe. Much like Newley, needs to develop a decent jump shot, and improve defensively. Hopefully he does find a spot with the Pigs, I think it's important for a team to have some local talent.

[BlowJoggs]

Petrie's no slouch in athleticism though. Brisbane are on to a good thing, he can play, has really good IQ on both ends and works very, very hard.

I'm not sure that Clint will ever see the athleticism he once had, I haven't seen him in the same state bodywise since 4 seasons ago and he's not getting any younger.

Anyhow, Matty Knight is looking good, dropped body fat and going well. Damo's been jogging a few kms a day and should be on court within a month.

There will be local content I'm sure!

[Wallitron]

There will be local content I'm sure!

Ok, spill it!

[BlowJoggs]

I'm not trying to be curious-like (I hate that "I can't tell you, but trust me I have big balls" shit) but I'm sure the team will say something once it has league clearance.

[The Oracle]

Interesting news that Graeme Dann has "done a runner" on the Parramatta Wildcats in the WABL.
A few very disappointed people at Parramatta, including some players who stayed last year and this year because GD would be playing.
At least they got one year out of him.

Another interesting observation is how well the Wildcats played without GD on Sat night, although the opposition was definitely below standard (apologies to the opposition, who I won't name for fear of embarrassing them).

This weekend's game against the Hills District Hornets will be a better test of how the team "gels" without GD.

[Skindog the Hawk]

Another interesting observation is how well the Wildcats played without GD on Sat night, although the opposition was definitely below standard (apologies to the opposition, who I won't name for fear of embarrassing them).

Hmmm...not too hard to guess which Hunter-based black-and-red club got thumped by the 'Cats on Saturday. They rely on one ex-NBL'er and a bunch of youngsters after last season's NBL'er decided to stay with the Blaze over the off-season. Unfortunately the "attraction" of playing WABL isn't what it used to be :?

SD.

[glockers]

[quote="The Oracle":20lhonrq]Another interesting observation is how well the Wildcats played without GD on Sat night, although the opposition was definitely below standard (apologies to the opposition, who I won't name for fear of embarrassing them).

Hmmm...not too hard to guess which Hunter-based black-and-red club got thumped by the 'Cats on Saturday. They rely on one ex-NBL'er and a bunch of youngsters after last season's NBL'er decided to stay with the Blaze over the off-season. Unfortunately the "attraction" of playing WABL isn't what it used to be :?

SD.[/quote:20lhonrq]

That assumes there was an attraction in the first place. I think it was more hey I live in Sydney and might as well play somewhere while I wait for the NBL to start.

[The Oracle]

[quote="The Oracle":1i9e6z2d]Another interesting observation is how well the Wildcats played without GD on Sat night, although the opposition was definitely below standard (apologies to the opposition, who I won't name for fear of embarrassing them).

Hmmm...not too hard to guess which Hunter-based black-and-red club got thumped by the 'Cats on Saturday. They rely on one ex-NBL'er and a bunch of youngsters after last season's NBL'er decided to stay with the Blaze over the off-season. Unfortunately the "attraction" of playing WABL isn't what it used to be :?

SD.[/quote:1i9e6z2d]

I said I wouldn't tell but you're at the wrong end of NSW (or a place close to NSW).

[Mike]

Now go back to your 289087 page threads.
com on cez, lets go back to the wildcats thread

[Skindog the Hawk]

[quote="Skindog the Hawk":gfdrw0ri][quote="The Oracle":gfdrw0ri]Another interesting observation is how well the Wildcats played without GD on Sat night, although the opposition was definitely below standard (apologies to the opposition, who I won't name for fear of embarrassing them).

Hmmm...not too hard to guess which Hunter-based black-and-red club got thumped by the 'Cats on Saturday. They rely on one ex-NBL'er and a bunch of youngsters after last season's NBL'er decided to stay with the Blaze over the off-season. Unfortunately the "attraction" of playing WABL isn't what it used to be :?

SD.[/quote:gfdrw0ri]

I said I wouldn't tell but you're at the wrong end of NSW (or a place close to NSW).[/quote:gfdrw0ri]

Good point...I had a brain-freeze...it was the "other" thumpable team :lol: 8)

[Hogsbreath]

News at last. Our club is still kicking....

http://nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=74873

The signing of Drew Williamson would be what Cezer was eluding to.

This is inline with Bevo's youth policy.

[BlowJoggs]

Yup!
And Reed will likely be back. It's very much a NSW club. Here's hoping two stud imports are unearthed.

[Hogsbreath]

The imports will need to be great if we are to make too many noises. We need a 1/2 combo guard and another big. Keep everyone healthy and you never know.

[HunterPirates]

And to get some people turning up to games.

[Wallitron]

And to get some people turning up to games.

Get some players turning up to games and then some people might turn up just to watch.

[meg]

The move to Penriff isn't going ahead this season, either, I believe....so I'll be there again in section O propping up the bar! :D

[googs]

I have heard the same about Penrith not being the home court this season....I heard Whitlam centre may make a comeback.....Lets hope so.......

[SizzleChest]

We need an Australian who can score. In days gone by it was Johnny, then Harvs - now we need some scoring impact regardless of the imports we get.
Johnny come back !!

[Jackboot Johnny]

I have heard the same about Penrith not being the home court this season....I heard Whitlam centre may make a comeback.....Lets hope so.......

I have it on good authority that Whitlam Centre is pretty much "on" for 2008/09.

JJ.

[pig fan]

I thought the Whitlam centre was condemned?

would love the pigs back there.

[SizzleChest]

I have heard the same about Penrith not being the home court this season....I heard Whitlam centre may make a comeback.....Lets hope so.......

I have it on good authority that Whitlam Centre is pretty much "on" for 2008/09.

JJ.


New shot clocks and Buzzers PLEASE !!!!!!!!!

[Hogsbreath]

The M7 will make the trip a bit easier. I remember takling the Cumberland Hwy on a Friday evening :evil:

[CallisoH8R]

Lets see if we can get a consistently working shot clock and scoreboards at the Whitlam first, followed by a roof that doesn't leak. Because if it is raining on game night, I can guarantee you they will have to cancel their game, because this a leak at the front end of court 2 that is just ridiculous, and given the fact there is only half the stand there used to be, might actually look like the place is full. And lets hope there has been no function the night before because god forbid the place ever getting cleaned up... though if the Razorbacks playing there makes then fix the shit they refuse to fix at the moment then I'm all for it.

But playing at Whitlam at this point, you'd be better of play at Minto - Honestly. The venue is in a poor state and all we seem to do is argue with Belgravia Leisure and council.

[pig fan]

Ahh the leaking roof.

I remember they had floor wipers on the sidelines running on every time the play went past halfway. They would all run on and start wiping and then run off again quickly. Until JR gets the steal and heads straight towards one of the wipers who looks up, sh1ts himself and tries to get out of the way, and slips over on the puddle he was trying to wipe up. Rillie jumps over him, gets to the 3 point line, pulls up, looks back and laughs and drains the 3.

[boz_novocastrian]

the parking situation in liverpool is a joke, the no right turn signs are so obscured that you do not see them until the last second and hope a copper was not about

[meg]

the parking situation in liverpool is a joke, the no right turn signs are so obscured that you do not see them until the last second and hope a copper was not about

Good. Maybe Tony Rampton will get lost on the way out there.

[Daevo]

So is Liverpool any better for you than Penriff meg? :|

[curious]

Bring back the condemned stadium. Are you serious?
Long, long time since I was there but does it even have A/C? Let alone meet NBL standards?
Did it ever meet NBL standards?

[Wallitron]

Did it ever meet NBL standards?

The NBL have standards?

[gangsta boo]

Last time I went to Penrith it was a sweat box and in need of aircon , as for the Whitlam Centre that has fallen into a state of disrepair. The only decent venues surely are Acer, Ent Cent or the Sports Centre - otherwise how much money would need to be spent to get these other stadiums up to standard?

[meg]

So is Liverpool any better for you than Penriff meg? :|

No. I have memories of taking my oldest daughter out there when she was only a few weeks old. Not something I'd like to go back to, it was pretty basic, and we were in a box!

[Da Houndawg #55]

the parking situation in liverpool is a joke, the no right turn signs are so obscured that you do not see them until the last second and hope a copper was not about

Good. Maybe Tony Rampton will get lost on the way out there.
I'd still be willing to trade you an Axel Dench for a Tony Rampton...

[The Oracle]

Things are happening in Penrith.
Trimedia (owners of the Pigs) have sacked all on-air staff from their Radio Station Kick-FM and replaced them with staff from the Western Weekender newspaper (also owned by Trimedia)- smells of cost-cutting.
It may well be the cost of the Homebush Sports Centre is too high, considering the meagre returns through the door and maybe even from sponsors, hence the ongoing talk about Penrith and Liverpool (neither which is currently suitable for any number of reasons).

[Daevo]

how much money would need to be spent to get these other stadiums up to standard?
Many tens of thousands I expect.

I heard that Penriff stadium management is keen to host the Pigs as is the local basketball association (2 separate entities but with close ties as you can imagine). The whispers I've heard are that the stadium is trying to swing some kind of deal with the neighbouring cricket club to get additional grounds for expansion. My word is that key elements of the local council is against using the Cambridge Pk stadium site since they expect a resident backlash against crowds packing into what is a fairly quiet residential suburban street (obviously ill-informed about the numbers attending Pigs games :P). There was talk about a possible venue on the other side of Penrith, not too far from the Panthers complex, but things have gone quiet on that front.

I honestly can't see Penrith or EG Whitlam being an option for 08/09 season unless the NBL relaxes quite a few of their requirements regarding stadiums.

[Stanley]

Only takes 50mins to get down to the Snakepit. :wink:

[Daevo]

Only takes 50mins to get down to the Snakepit. :wink:
Don't I know it :lol:

I hear from a usually well-informed & reliable sauce that EG Whitlam has had a LOT of work done on fixing the roof, floors, scoreboard, clocks, lighting & basically anything that isn't nailed down plus a few bits that are. Any locals able to confirm or deny?

[The Oracle]

That's certainly NOT what an earlier poster said.
However, if true, I would change my view on next season and say the Pigs are headed there.

[meg]

Oh wells. At least Liverpool is closer than Penriff!

[Dagger]

Only takes 50mins to get down to the Snakepit. :wink:
Don't I know it :lol:

I hear from a usually well-informed & reliable sauce that EG Whitlam has had a LOT of work done on fixing the roof, floors, scoreboard, clocks, lighting & basically anything that isn't nailed down plus a few bits that are. Any locals able to confirm or deny?

Yeah thats true. All their comps were being played out of the Michel Wenden Centre in Miller for a season or 2 while they carried out all the repairs / upgrades.

From what I was told they were forced to close down and fix it all.

[curious]

That's certainly NOT what an earlier poster said.
However, if true, I would change my view on next season and say the Pigs are headed there.
I had mentioned some time ago, the last I had heard was that penrith was not an option for this season.
One important thing lacking is A/C apparently.

[Smithy]

The Whitlam Centre still leaks. relatively badly. Its just a dodgy venue overall. It even looks bad.

[meg]

That's certainly NOT what an earlier poster said.
However, if true, I would change my view on next season and say the Pigs are headed there.
I had mentioned some time ago, the last I had heard was that penrith was not an option for this season.
One important thing lacking is A/C apparently.

I have a friend who plays at Penrith who almost fell over laughing when I said I'd heard that the Razorbacks were moving out there. Something about "bring your own folding chair"...

[Daevo]

Actually meg, I think folding chairs are part of the plan for Penrith....well, wheel-away stands anyway :wink:

If what I hear is even half true, they certainly plan on spending a lot to make the changes needed but I honestly don't see it happening in time for the 08/09 season. A year later maybe.

[CallisoH8R]

The place is stuffed. The centre basically don't maintain the hall, only fix things when you complain they are broken. Half the original stands are gone and won't be replaced because the amount they could fit on the stands would contraven fire laws. The floors haven't been sanded and ploished since the last time the razorbacks played there... yeh it's not a good venue, certainly not nbl standard, not even aba standard, and I'm probably there more than any other person on these boards...

[sugar.baby]

For those of you that have no idea (which is obviously the case with some), there has been considerable improvements made to the Whitlam Centre, with more scheduled in the future.

From a team point of view, I would think that it makes sense to have the Razorbacks doing all their activities out of the one venue (weights, recovery in pools, training on court etc), not to mention finally regaining a home court advantage since they will play on the court at which they train (which doesn't happen at Homebush at present).

As for the "leaky" roof, those of your who "frequently" visit Whitlam may have noticed that they have indeed been fixing the roof problems which will save some ball boys some exercise from having to run onto the court and wipe the water away!

I would ask all you so called supporters the following questions:
- would you rather have a team play in front of a packed and more intimate venue or in a half empty stadium?
- would you rather have your team become more financially viable and secure by training and playing out of a smaller and more manageable venue?
- do you want yopur team to still be around in the near future?

If you are a true Razorbacks fan, then you will support them wherever they end up. There are obviously many reasons for the management of the Razorbacks looking at "other alternatives." All owners need to be able to get some value out of their dollar and if changes need to be made to achieve this then that is what needs to happen.

Hey Razorback fans, how about trying to look at the positives rather than dwelling on the past and the negatives!

[meg]

For those of you that have no idea (which is obviously the case with some), there has been considerable improvements made to the Whitlam Centre, with more scheduled in the future.

Well, that's great...but what kind of future are we talking...10 days or 10 years?

From a team point of view, I would think that it makes sense to have the Razorbacks doing all their activities out of the one venue (weights, recovery in pools, training on court etc), not to mention finally regaining a home court advantage since they will play on the court at which they train (which doesn't happen at Homebush at present).

There are pools and weight rooms there? I didn't notice last time I was there, but that was a long time ago...the last time the Razors played there...8 years ago, maybe?
I've just done a quick search online and can find nothing about the centre other than a street address, and the fact that it opened in 1983. Surely if it was a good facility, it would be advertised and touted as such?

As for the "leaky" roof, those of your who "frequently" visit Whitlam may have noticed that they have indeed been fixing the roof problems which will save some ball boys some exercise from having to run onto the court and wipe the water away!

I can only go on what CallisoH8R has said, but having met him, I believe he is quite the honest fellow and therefore tend to believe him over you, who joined up here 2 days ago in order to tell us how great the E G Whitlam Centre is...do you work for them, by any chance? Or perhaps Trimedia?

I would ask all you so called supporters the following questions:
- would you rather have a team play in front of a packed and more intimate venue or in a half empty stadium?
- would you rather have your team become more financially viable and secure by training and playing out of a smaller and more manageable venue?
- do you want yopur team to still be around in the near future?

-Yes, but not at the detriment of safety or comfort concerns.
- Of course, but the stadium is not the only problem here. Blaming it solely on that is inviting all sorts of trouble
- Well DUH...see, if you had been here a little longer before calling people out for not being "true razorback fans" you would realise this is a stupid question.

If you are a true Razorbacks fan, then you will support them wherever they end up. There are obviously many reasons for the management of the Razorbacks looking at "other alternatives." All owners need to be able to get some value out of their dollar and if changes need to be made to achieve this then that is what needs to happen.

Absolutely, of course I will remain a fan wherever they end up. I do understand why management would be looking at alternatives, however I would like these alternatives to be sound ones, and not a case of "good enough"
Sadly if they move, I wouldn't be able to get to as many games as I probably fall into the King's catchment I suppose. Definitely no Wednesday games, and limited weekend ones depending on kid's activities, as it's so much further away than the SSC.

I would still like to state that the SSC is one of the best places to watch basketball in the country, and I think it would be a great pity if it was unused by the NBL.

Hey Razorback fans, how about trying to look at the positives rather than dwelling on the past and the negatives!

Sadly, there is no way to access the several YEARS on these boards (since the boards have switched over, I've been unable to find old posts) that people have been positive about the Razorbacks...particularly during the turmoil after Gordie left and the rot began. You'll just have to take my work for it, OK?

OK....Cesar, Sizzlechest, razors_girl, Wallitron and all the rest of you...show this dude where we stand!

[Wallitron]

I've only been to the Whitlam centre once, but it was won of my favourite games ever, Pigs vs Tigers and the score was something like 72 all at half time. It was an absolute scorching day in Sydney and like most tin shed basketball venues in Sydney, a real pressure cooker. Over the last few years, I've actually seen a few games out of small gyms. I watched a pre season game in 2005 at Bankstown, one of Jermaine Blackburn's first games here. I also saw them last year at Auburn against the Utes. I tend to watch a fair amount of basketball in small gyms, and have no problem with it. As long as the ticket prices reflect the quality of the venue, and it's within 30mins drive, there's a good chance you'll see me at a few games. Not that many people are within 30mins of Penrith though, some don't even go that far for holidays.

I agree with Meg in that the SSC is the best NBL venue in Sydney. It's the right size for crowds between 2000 and 5000, which I believe both the Pigs and Kings should be trying to average. I think the Whitlam centre holds about 3000, so if it's in a similar condition or better than when they last played there, and it's better financially, I'd be happy with it. That's still TBD in my book though. It's very close to the M5, so fairly accessible, but I think the parking was on the soccer field or something.

[Dagger]

There are pools and weight rooms there? I didn't notice last time I was there, but that was a long time ago...the last time the Razors played there...8 years ago, maybe?
I've just done a quick search online and can find nothing about the centre other than a street address, and the fact that it opened in 1983. Surely if it was a good facility, it would be advertised and touted as such?




They have a good gym and a very good pool - indoor and outdoor!

The Whitlam Centre is a great sports venue. Im not talking about for the Razorbacks, but just in general.

They have 2 big pools, basketball courts, football ovals, netball courts recently built next door, squash, tennis, karate etc.

http://www.whitlamleisurecentre.com.au/

[CallisoH8R]

In repsonse to Sugarbaby. Yes, work has been done on the Whitlam Centre, primarily on the gym, the pool haven't had much done to them but they are in decent shape. As for the roof problems I can categorically state that the roof is worse condition since they closed it for repairs. In fact, the roof problem was meant to be completely fixed over a period from late november to early january and it didn't happen. If it rains, you can't use court 2, there is a spot where it leaks just outside the key at the main scoreboard, where they have had to replace the patch on the floor because the leak rotted the floor. It's impossible to use the venue -safely- if it rains.

I will support them at Liverpool if they play it's too close to home that i wouldn't. But, don't tell me about the quality of the main hall at the EG whitlam centre because it is not in that great a condition. Yes, the rest of the centre has been improving but the main hall has been neglected and they will have to work quickly to make the venue suitable for NBL level games.

[sugar.baby]

CallisoH8R..... a leaky roof is not a good thing....luckily the NBL is played in the summer (and if the drought continues there should be no problems!)

[meg]

There are pools and weight rooms there? I didn't notice last time I was there, but that was a long time ago...the last time the Razors played there...8 years ago, maybe?
I've just done a quick search online and can find nothing about the centre other than a street address, and the fact that it opened in 1983. Surely if it was a good facility, it would be advertised and touted as such?







They have a good gym and a very good pool - indoor and outdoor!

The Whitlam Centre is a great sports venue. Im not talking about for the Razorbacks, but just in general.

They have 2 big pools, basketball courts, football ovals, netball courts recently built next door, squash, tennis, karate etc.

http://www.whitlamleisurecentre.com.au/

Thanks for that...I googled E G Whitlam Centre, which was what it was called the last time the Razors called it home, and didn't throw up that address! I did notice on the picture on the home page that the basketball court looks suspiciously outdoor...maybe that's what they mean by "fixed the roof?"

[sugar.baby]

Meg, to be honest, I haven't set foot inside the Whitlam Leisure Centre since a long time ago. Therefore I presumed that it was up to scratch. By the sounds of things (from their website) they have spent some money on the gym part of the venue. I know a few people who go there to some classes and they said it is much nicer appearance wise.
If the Razorbacks are to look at it as a possible venue then surely the NBL would have to ok it first? If the roof is fixed and the floor can be given a good scrub and re-surfaced, then all I am saying is that I reckon it should be seriously looked at as a possible playing venue.

[CallisoH8R]

CallisoH8R..... a leaky roof is not a good thing....luckily the NBL is played in the summer (and if the drought continues there should be no problems!)

Hope the rain we have now doesn't last into the season then.

[meg]

Especially considering the first three months of the season are spring, notorious for rain!

[Stumps]

Who can predict when it will rain with Manbearpig controlling the climate ...

[MLS]

Back to on-court matters, has it officially been announced that Rhys Carter is gone from the Pigs? It's certainly the case according to this note on the Dragons website last week:

With Joe Ingles and Mark Worthington working out in the US, Mika Vukona and Nick Horvath playing in New Zealand, and Jason Smith rehabbing his shoulder, the only two official Dragons training at the moment are Matt Burston and Nathan Herbert. They’ve been joined in a training group by Sedale Threatt (son of former NBA star Sedale Threatt), ex-West Sydney Razorback Rhys Carter and a number of players from the Victorian state team.

[meg]

Rhys told me he wasn't coming back at the end of last season. He's from Sale in Victoria, so maybe he's playing down there again, which makes him handy to the Melbourne based teams.

[Da Houndawg #55]

Who can predict when it will rain with Manbearpig controlling the climate ...
God... Enough of the Seamus bashing, already...

[Poida]

Rhys told me he wasn't coming back at the end of last season. He's from Sale in Victoria, so maybe he's playing down there again, which makes him handy to the Melbourne based teams.

Correct. He' s currently playing for Latrobe City in the Big V.

[boz_novocastrian]

well if bubbles has retired with the dragons i see that as a good opportunity, but if bubbles goes around again this season, he should try for the tigers as he wont get much pt at the dragons

[lukus13]

Interesting comment from Beveridge regarding Hinson and De Vries.

http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=ne ... y&id=75029 (http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75029)

"Both have been recruited by teams in Europe and other teams in the NBL and unfortunately we are unable to get into a "bidding war" against these better resourced teams. "

[Wallitron]

We spoke about him (AJ Ogilvy) coming back and playing for us or staying in college, getting drafted and earning a few million a season...he will have to think about that one and get back to us!

We are chasing (NBA Draft candidates) Michael Beasley and Derrick Rose very hard, as we need a scoring guard and a power forward.


Funny. :)

While disappointing to lose the imports, it's good news to hear Bevo's thoughts on next season.

[Da Houndawg #55]

Beasley is a tweener forward and Rose is a point guard... Drop the Rose idea and take a gander at OJ Mayo... :wink: :P

[curious]

Gruber joins Razors.
http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=ne ... y&id=75032 (http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75032)
They looked at him last season too.
Hard worker. Well deserving of a shot.

[BlowJoggs]

How can you not love what the Razors stand for? Rookie coach that has had success at other levels now trying to parlay that to the big leagues. Without the big budgets of the cheating teams, the coach is giving young guys a go, unearthing ABA imports (first Troy and now Big Dave G), giving decent minutes to rookies and playing a brand of basketball that is fun to watch. I LOVE IT.

All the best to you Big Dave G, go Bevmeister go hard for Derrick Rose!!1

[Mr_Black]

unearthing ABA imports (first Troy and now Big Dave G)

Gruber is hardly an unearthing to us down here in bayside Melbourne. More like "when is a major team going to sign this guy ?!!?"
He should have been playing NBL level ball atleast a year ago

[meg]

I, for one, am very proud of the fact that Bevo is doing all he can to seek out and sign young players. It must be hard to compete against a bigger cheque book, and I think he is doing a marvellous job of getting a competitive team out on the floor with vastly different funds to some of the top tier teams.

[BlowJoggs]

unearthing ABA imports (first Troy and now Big Dave G)

Gruber is hardly an unearthing to us down here in bayside Melbourne. More like "when is a major team going to sign this guy ?!!?"
He should have been playing NBL level ball atleast a year ago


I hear ya but how many coaches have the balls to give him that first shot? Bevo does!

Petrie could play, who was willing to play him 25 minutes a game? Bevo! Etc, etc.

It brings a tear to my eye what the Razors are doing and now that local boy Drew is in the fold, it adds another Sydney flavour to the team.

To you Ozhoopers, get your arse to the games - posting in the Team thread doesn't support the team as much as your dollar would!

[Poida]

Gruber has been tearing up the SEABL for quite a few years now. Great to see him get a shot at the NBL!

[Dunkin' Dan]

MacGruber! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dbCcObSYylA)

[Cussy]

Hans Gruber (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QjBcexgpXYs)

[Da Houndawg #55]

Yippie-Kay-AY motherfucker.

[devils]

Gruber is a good signing, he will fill the shoes of petrie and then have a bit more.

Originally I had heard gruber he was trying to sign as an aussie, but had a melbourne based team interested in him if he got his citizenship sorted out.

Anyway glad to see him get a shot, I think he will be a solid player. A much better signing than an untested overseas player, razorbacks can't really afford to get rid of players mid season. Worked well last year with De Vries, Gruber should be good too.

[sugar.baby]

I think Gruber will do well. If he can grab rebounds and score inside like he obviously does in SEABL, then he will be a great fit. Good to see things happening at the Razorbacks, all be it slowly.

[Mammon]

:?: :?: :?:


is razorbacks an aba or nbl team? why keep signing aba materials, they won't b good enough mate, even if their o is okay, their d just won't be up to that standard.

[meg]

:?: :?: :?:


is razorbacks an aba or nbl team? why keep signing aba materials, they won't b good enough mate, even if their o is okay, their d just won't be up to that standard.

Good players have to be found somewhere. Good on the Razorbacks for giving local talent a go, and keeping within the "salary cap". I'd like to remind you that we had a better record last season with our team of unknowns and ABA talent that we did the season before, with Harvey, McGregor et al.

[Daevo]

Gruber isn't exactly 'local talent' meg :wink:

[meg]

Gruber isn't exactly 'local talent' meg :wink:

Well, they didn't have to go on a fact finding mission to the ends of the earth to find him...I wonder how much it costs the club for a head coach and entourage to go to the US/Europe to check out potential players?

[Wallitron]

Gruber isn't exactly 'local talent' meg :wink:

Well, they didn't have to go on a fact finding mission to the ends of the earth to find him...I wonder how much it costs the club for a head coach and entourage to go to the US/Europe to check out potential players?

Bevo has been in the US coaching anyway, so hopefully he saw some potential players. The Pigs import combo last year was one of the best in the league, and would have been even better if Damo stayed fit. I see no reason not to repeat that strategy of grabbing a local import assuming the second import is a gun. (like Hinson was).

[Da Houndawg #55]

:?: :?: :?:


is razorbacks an aba or nbl team? why keep signing aba materials, they won't b good enough mate, even if their o is okay, their d just won't be up to that standard.
Because money is nice.

[Mammon]

:?: :?: :?:


is razorbacks an aba or nbl team? why keep signing aba materials, they won't b good enough mate, even if their o is okay, their d just won't be up to that standard.

Good players have to be found somewhere. Good on the Razorbacks for giving local talent a go, and keeping within the "salary cap". I'd like to remind you that we had a better record last season with our team of unknowns and ABA talent that we did the season before, with Harvey, McGregor et al.

everyone grabs local talent from aba, but the pigs r the only 1 grabs their import from aba as well. the fact is that aba imports won't b good enough, if they r nbl standard, they should play their off-season in europe or nbdl, not aba.

[Poida]

:?: :?: :?:


is razorbacks an aba or nbl team? why keep signing aba materials, they won't b good enough mate, even if their o is okay, their d just won't be up to that standard.

Good players have to be found somewhere. Good on the Razorbacks for giving local talent a go, and keeping within the "salary cap". I'd like to remind you that we had a better record last season with our team of unknowns and ABA talent that we did the season before, with Harvey, McGregor et al.

everyone grabs local talent from aba, but the pigs r the only 1 grabs their import from aba as well. the fact is aba imports won't b good enough, if they r nbl standard, they should play their off-season in europe or nbdl, not aba.

Shawn Redhage anyone??? To a lesser extent, Troy Cash Money??

Guess the Breakers didn't think Redhage was up to it :lol: What a monumental fuck up that was!

[Mammon]

Shawn Redhage anyone??? To a lesser extent, Troy Cash Money??

Guess the Breakers didn't think Redhage was up to it :lol: What a monumental (Extremely Naughty Word!) up that was!

shawn played for the breakers b4 he plays aba, so he doesn't count as an aba material, troy cashmore can really shoot some 3s, but his d was so crap that even aba blokes can have a go at him. :mrgreen:

[Da Houndawg #55]

Umm... I'm pretty sure Redhage was playing SEABL before Wollongong, before New Zealand, before Perth...

Again. Money is nice.

And he's a great bargain bin import, other teams have showed interest over time but things have fallen through for him in the past, now he gets his shot. Good for both parties.

[Poida]

Shawn Redhage anyone??? To a lesser extent, Troy Cash Money??

Guess the Breakers didn't think Redhage was up to it :lol: What a monumental (Extremely Naughty Word!) up that was!

shawn played for the breakers b4 he plays aba, so he doesn't count as an aba material,

BZZZZZZZZ, WRONG. Redhage played in the SEABL for North West Tassie, before he played for the Breakers. He also played another season in the SEABL for Bendigo, the following year :mrgreen:

[paul]

College is a lower standard than NBL, so are many European leagues, but no complaints when imports get signed from there. Sure, the ABA isnt super, but Gruber has been dominating at that level. Good players can be found in any legue around the world.

Mike Kelly is another ABA example, so's Damon Lowery - even though he was naturalised by that point.

[Daevo]

So if Gruber isn't a good selection because he's come from SEABL, it doesn't say much for the swag of current NBL players in the ABA putting up numbers nowhere near as impressive.

[Da Houndawg #55]

David Biwer, again like Lowery, although he naturalised...

[Wallitron]

David Biwer, again like Lowery, although he naturalised...

I really liked his game, and was surprised he didn't get a gig when Victoria folded. I suspect that moving out of Melbourne wasn't an option though, his real job was his main money earner and the basketball gig was just a hobby.

[Catsfan]

From memory I recall a guy named Snoopy Graham who played about 8 games for the Goldfields Giants in the WA SBL, apparently scored about 80 pts one night! He went on to play for Atlanta and one season was runner up for the 6th Man award.
Whilst that scenario will never happen again, it pays for clubs to pay attention to the lesser leagues. I also remember a guy who dominated for Swan Mustangs called Chris Sandle....had he not had so many off-court problems he could have easily played NBL and would have been right up there with the better imports of that time (1994).

[Stumps]

David Biwer, again like Lowery, although he naturalised...
I really liked his game, and was surprised he didn't get a gig when Victoria folded. I suspect that moving out of Melbourne wasn't an option though, his real job was his main money earner and the basketball gig was just a hobby.
I suspect he still manages to keep in touch with what is happening in Australian hoops however :wink:

[Da Houndawg #55]

David Biwer, again like Lowery, although he naturalised...
I really liked his game, and was surprised he didn't get a gig when Victoria folded. I suspect that moving out of Melbourne wasn't an option though, his real job was his main money earner and the basketball gig was just a hobby.
I suspect he still manages to keep in touch with what is happening in Australian hoops however :wink:
Cesar is David Biwer..? :shock:

[curious]

Biwer still ripping it up in the SEABL.
I won't mention his age.....

[angry ant]

Razors re-sign Reed

The West Sydney Razorbacks have continued to bolster their playing ranks by re-signing Clint Reed to their roster for the 2008/09 NBL season.

http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75104

[boz_novocastrian]

biewer has played for the chargers and spectres still in aba level in the last bit of time

[sugar.baby]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/s ... 23,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23819104-5001023,00.html)

Thoughts anyone?

[Dunkin' Dan]

I'm going out on a limb here, but I predict that Mike W's return to the NBL scene will be met with less enthusiasm by Razorbacks fans than it has been by Kings fans.

[Wallitron]

The reason the Pigs exist is Mike Wrublewski. Basketball fans wanted a basketball product first and foremost, not a guy dressed in a Jesters outfit throwing a rubber chicken.

Sure, the club was financially successful, but if that's all that mattered, why not just stick to making money outside of basketball? His on court record while in control of the club was a joke. If it was a choice between having no Sydney teams and having one Sydney team like the Kings in the 90s, I'd choose the former.

My only hope is that he's learned something since being gone, and that is stick to things he's good at. Being a Sydney Kings fan, yes, being a NBL team manager, not so much.

[isaac]

His ownership bid hasn't been approved and he's admitted that he needs financial help to get it done anyway. If he really wants a single team in Sydney, why's he trying to resuscitate the Kings? ;)

[Wallitron]

This is from the Matt McQuade
http://www.sydneykings.com.au/default.aspx?s=history

And so, after much angst and some fearsome debate, both the Supersonics and Westars agreed to merge in November 1987, with the Bankstown Basketball Association becoming a part-owner and Mike Wrublewski taking the reins as chairman of the new entity. It wasn’t an easy thing to bring both parties together. Bankstown, helmed by Lorraine Landon, were the traditionalists, the blue collar team who, it is fair to say, regarded Sydney and their ebullient owner with a mixture of apprehension and mistrust. In some circles, Mike was seen as a ‘Johnny come lately’ who would ultimately bring the sport down.


Nothing has changed. It was the same people butting heads 20 years ago when the teams merged. Wrublewski gloats in the paper, basically saying "I told you so". West Sydney can also point and laugh at Wrublewski's lack of on court success, as they predicted.

[Earnie Shavers]

The bottom line is that the Pigs are doing no-one, least themselves, any favours at Homebush. It is a kind of pointless exercise there. Go to Liverpool, go to Penrith, build an identity and a base way outside of and apart from the Kings. Create a *real* rivalry based not just on some old revenge fantasy on one side, and some "haha, told you so" counter attack on the other. If they can't work a miracle with an appropriate stadium at a location like that, and they stay at Homebush, I can't see them going through any sort of magic resurrection. They did well early on, but once the Kings beat them to a championship, then actually beat them at a championship, the dream they were initially built on burst and they were left looking around at zero penetration in Sydney, zero profile, and zero real base to fall back on.

The other reality is that if the Kings get back up and steady on two feet, and this NBL review recommends dumping a couple of teams, I don't think there's any doubt that all fingers will point straight to the Pigs first up. The good bit is that unlike most teams who hit a wall, they are still in the position to save themselves, but they really don't have a lot of time left to do so.

And I am a fan of two Sydney teams. If it's done right, it absolutely can and should work. The Pigs simply aren't doing it right.

[Daevo]

Well everything I'm hearing tells me that the Penriff move is not going to happen for the coming season but they want out of the SSC so it looks like it's really going to be a case of back to the future for both Sydney teams with Mike W back in control of the Kings (quite possibly at the SSC) & the Pigs playing out at Liverpool.

[Wallitron]

And I am a fan of two Sydney teams. If it's done right, it absolutely can and should work. The Pigs simply aren't doing it right.

And the Kings are? And the guy to fix it is the guy that fucked it up last time?

[Earnie Shavers]

And I am a fan of two Sydney teams. If it's done right, it absolutely can and should work. The Pigs simply aren't doing it right.

And the Kings are?

No, they're not, and saying so probably makes up 90% of my posts in here.

[Wallitron]

No, they're not, and saying so probably makes up 90% of my posts in here.

In here? You mean the Pigs thread or OzHoops?

We rarely mention the Kings in here. I think you'll find that most people like myself (ie Pigs fans) don't even bother in Kings threads anymore. It's a pretty safe rule that if a Kings thread hits 4+ pages, it's going nowhere.

[Daevo]

Now now you 2, don't go demonstrating why a merger whould never work out :P

Dragging this back onto Pigs stuff, does anybody know much about new Pigs CEO, Steve Aquilina?
http://razorbacks.com.au/default.aspx?s ... y&id=75120 (http://razorbacks.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75120)

He's not from a basketball background & quite frankly, I think that's probably a plus the way things have been going.

[phill]

This is from the Matt McQuade
http://www.sydneykings.com.au/default.aspx?s=history




Nothing has changed. It was the same people butting heads 20 years ago when the teams merged. Wrublewski gloats in the paper, basically saying "I told you so". West Sydney can also point and laugh at Wrublewski's lack of on court success, as they predicted.[/quote]

To be fair Mike was always against a 2nd Sydney team and a move to a summer comp. He has always been consistant on this. He turned the Kings into a real sporting force and was partially responsible for both the Rugby League and AFL going on the markrting offensive to arrest the inroads basketball was make in Sydney. He brought real entertainment with game nights and packed the SEC consistantly. The only thing that Mike failed to do was to bring a championship to Sydney, but hell he spent heaps trying to do so. The Kings did flop on court but how is that Mike's fault, he delivered the coach/s every player they wanted, the coaches failed not Mike. FFS he even sacked his mate Turner when frankly he had enough. Mike has make a massive contribution to BBall in this country there is no denying this. Even BG recognised this by giving him his first Kings championship ring. The only people who hang shit on Mike are those disloyal ex-Kings suppoters who cut and run to the Razors. Those like me who stayed loyal to the Kings have been rewarded with the last 6 glorious years. That's what pisses the Razors fans the most. So leave Mike alone.

[Wallitron]

Mike has make a massive contribution to BBall in this country there is no denying this. Even BG recognised this by giving him his first Kings championship ring. The only people who hang shit on Mike are those disloyal ex-Kings suppoters who cut and run to the Razors. Those like me who stayed loyal to the Kings have been rewarded with the last 6 glorious years. That's what pisses the Razors fans the most. So leave Mike alone.

As opposed to the contribution of the likes of Landon or Cadee? Where the fuck has he been for the last ten years? Again, Wrublewski is the reason the Razorbacks exist. His return will only re-enforce that need. Wrublewski and Russell Crowe should hook up some time, they have a lot in common.

[Daevo]

As opposed to the contribution of the likes of Landon or Cadee?
Who?

I told you already, the new guy's name is Aquilina. Time to stop living in the past of unfulfilled promises.

[Wallitron]

I told you already, the new guy's name is Aquilina. Time to stop living in the past of unfulfilled promises.

When the Kings fans stop coming in here praising their "saviour", I'll stop educating them.

[Simmo23]

Wallitron, perhaps you should come back when the Pigs have been successful, either on or off the court.

[Wallitron]

Wallitron, perhaps you should come back when the Pigs have been successful, either on or off the court.

I believe that happened in the Pigs first season. :)

[Simmo23]

Really, did they win a Championship, or did they make money?

I would suggest neither has happened in their history let alone their first season.

[phill]

Mike has make a massive contribution to BBall in this country there is no denying this. Even BG recognised this by giving him his first Kings championship ring. The only people who hang shit on Mike are those disloyal ex-Kings suppoters who cut and run to the Razors. Those like me who stayed loyal to the Kings have been rewarded with the last 6 glorious years. That's what pisses the Razors fans the most. So leave Mike alone.

As opposed to the contribution of the likes of Landon or Cadee? Where the (Extremely Naughty Word!) has he been for the last ten years? Again, Wrublewski is the reason the Razorbacks exist. His return will only re-enforce that need. Wrublewski and Russell Crowe should hook up some time, they have a lot in common.

Landon was with the Kings for years. What's your point? Also what's your point with Mike and Russell. Btw in the last 10 years Mike's been busy attending all the Kings home games.

[angry ant]

Razorbacks: We won't be next

IF there is only one NBL team left in Sydney next season, the West Sydney Razorbacks say it will be them.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23828550-5001023,00.html

[WilloWildWaves]

And good on em. Sydney got them self in this shity mess ( suposedly cheating the cap, offering players money they don't have) they have no right to drag the Razors into it.

[Poida]

Some interesting comments in that article.

"The Razorbacks are financial, they're stable, they're paying their debts to us and paying their players and everything else,'' Harmison said

Wonder how true this is. If true, so much for the 'Backs being in worse shape or not much better than the Kings, that some suggested.

[Wallitron]

Also what's your point with Mike and Russell.

Similar style of owner, die hard fan that gets too involved for his own good. Ask Adam Macdougal if he'd work for Crowe again. :)

[Daevo]

Some interesting comments in that article.

"The Razorbacks are financial, they're stable, they're paying their debts to us and paying their players and everything else,'' Harmison said

Wonder how true this is. If true, so much for the 'Backs being in worse shape or not much better than the Kings, that some suggested.

The Pigs had their pain last year but found a new owner who has kept them going. They've obviously had a smaller budget in terms of players, venue & even back office (ever noticed how asst coach Coxsedge writes much of the Pigs' newsletters, etc). They will survive while their owner is prepared to tip in the cash but the Kings & Bullets have shown the risk of being dependent on a benefactor for survival.


It looks like the new CEO is no stranger to spin:

The club will relocate from Homebush next season to smaller a stadium in either Liverpool or Penrith.

Aquilina denied it was down-sizing, claiming the move was designed to build a stronger community connection.

Yeah, right :roll:

[The Oracle]

That would work if they actually mean it.

Imagine - an NBL team which gets out and works with local schools in the community to inspire a fan base! :roll:

Back to the future!!! :D

The key will be however to send the "stars/studs" out to the schools, not the Development players (whom no-one knows).
The Kings started this well in their glory days but fell into bad habits by sending the dregs of the roster, rather than the stars.
Whether this came about through player reluctance or just bad management is the question.
The NRL and AFL do this superbly in Penrith (not sure about Liverpool) and it also attracts Media because the "name" players are attending the clinics.

[SizzleChest]

Mike has make a massive contribution to BBall in this country there is no denying this. Even BG recognised this by giving him his first Kings championship ring. The only people who hang shit on Mike are those disloyal ex-Kings suppoters who cut and run to the Razors. Those like me who stayed loyal to the Kings have been rewarded with the last 6 glorious years. That's what pisses the Razors fans the most. So leave Mike alone.

As opposed to the contribution of the likes of Landon or Cadee? Where the (Extremely Naughty Word!) has he been for the last ten years? Again, Wrublewski is the reason the Razorbacks exist. His return will only re-enforce that need. Wrublewski and Russell Crowe should hook up some time, they have a lot in common.

Landon was with the Kings for years. What's your point? Also what's your point with Mike and Russell. Btw in the last 10 years Mike's been busy attending all the Kings home games.

Well I think the point is Landon, prior to being with the Kings as a result of the merger of the then two clubs (Westars and Sonics), was with the Bankstown affiliated club the Westars. Point being that she as well as Robbie have busted their arses over a number of years trying to promoted Basketball in this city. Wrublewski however has only managed to run a Circus with clowns (many of them), a poof Jester and a rubber chook and a singular obsession to make a buck no matter what the cost or how much it denigrates the sport which is Basketball.

Noodles Wrublewski is still (as he always was) a money grubbing TOOL of major proportions who single headedly put the Kings on the brink of extinction a few years back. Remember the Superdome fiasco and how he committed the Kings to that venue and then buggered off to leave them floundering with no way of paying their way at the empty-dome. I do.

Unfortunately he didn't quite mange to kill the Kings off properly - let's hope he does a better job this time around.

As for getting rid of the Razors - what a F@#$in joke !!! The Razors are viable, don't cheat the cap like the Kings allegedly do and have some integrity. Noodles however has the gall to call for the banishment of the Razors so he can maximise his profit and all of this before he is actually put in control again. Here's an idea, why not get rid of all the teams so he can literally play with himself :-)

I hope he brings back that frigin' chook again - I'll bite its head off AGAIN !!!

[Razorjohn]

If the next week comes and goes and the Kings are officially no longer in the NBL the Pigs need to take advantage big time. They will be the sole sydney NBL club and with that should try and lure as many king fans as possible. Offer discounted season memberships, free tickets to the first home game for all ex king season members etc etc.

There maybe a few hardcore king fans that will never follow another side again but im sure there are still thousands of them that are still either a) young b)bandwagoners c)basketball fans who just want there fix each week.

As much as I think Kings are needed in this comp I am thinking Pigs can really benifit from this situation if they play their cards right.

[gangsta boo]

Playing in a tin shed out of the city likely won't cut it for most though

They should go after the members/fans (like vultures to a carcass) from the western areas of Sydney if they hope to tempt former Kings fans to their games

[Cussy]

That's the spirit. Bag the crosstown rivals to make yourself feel better.

And you criticised other people for being "supposed fans of basketball."

[Daevo]

If the next week comes and goes and the Kings are officially no longer in the NBL the Pigs need to take advantage big time. They will be the sole sydney NBL club and with that should try and lure as many king fans as possible. Offer discounted season memberships, free tickets to the first home game for all ex king season members etc etc.

There maybe a few hardcore king fans that will never follow another side again but im sure there are still thousands of them that are still either a) young b)bandwagoners c)basketball fans who just want there fix each week.

As much as I think Kings are needed in this comp I am thinking Pigs can really benifit from this situation if they play their cards right.
I'm sure the Pigs would realise that the likelihood of them being the only Sydney team in the comp creates some opportunities for them. I don't know if the move to the 'burbs is a done deal but if they were to stay at the SSC, it's likely they'd get at least another 500-1,000 to games from the diehard basketball followers from the Kings' fan base who want a regular fix of live NBL action. Whether that changes the economics of staying at the SSC is another question. I can see a great promotion to entice Kings fans across by offering discounted tickets to Kings season ticket holders from last year, even if it only applied to the 1st home game. Of course if they are set with the move to Liverpool then I guess attracting more people to games becomes less of a priority....what is the capacity of EG Whitlam these days anyway?

I have always said that current junior players should be the main target audience for NBL clubs so lets give them get some kind of discount to attend games. As a junior rugby league player, I got free admission to just about any league game & I think that system is still in place. If the Pigs are based at Liverpool, it's going to take some convincing for a lot of people who used to attend games at the SSC to make the move so give them an incentive....there is nothing like a nagging kid to drag mum & dad to the other end of town.

The Pigs also need to cultivate media links to get their name out there more....we get little enough coverage of the NBL in local media as it is but what did exist was 90% Kings stuff. The Pigs need to make themselves known. This new CEO is no stranger to sports administration so hopefully has the media & other contacts to get the brand a bit more exposure. Do they still have some affiliation with Westbus? That's a lot of moving billboards if they even get a small poster on each one....hell, put a simple poster inside the bus so the school kids see it. Oh & get your players out to associations, schools, local fetes, award nights....weddings, parties, anything :P ....make them into identities....you've got some locals so use them. It doesn't hurt to have your coaching staff get a bit more vocal in public now & then either.

[gangsta boo]

That's the spirit. Bag the crosstown rivals to make yourself feel better.

And you criticised other people for being "supposed fans of basketball."

How have I bagged them exactly?

Its a fact that the Whitlam Centre and the Penrith stadium are not good enough as NBL venues - how will they be up to scratch in time for the season to start? As I stated in another thread I WILL go to Pigs and Hawks games next season - I most definately will not walk away from basketball

[Daevo]

That's the spirit. Bag the crosstown rivals to make yourself feel better.
It's not exactly bagging TC....the Pigs moving to Liverpool would be like playing out of the local stadium at Cockburn or Gosnells. Such a move is hardly likely to attract fans from a team that was based in downtown Perth so it's much less likely the Pigs will attract many Kings fans on the outer fringes of suburbia. Even if it weren't for the travel, it's only a small venue & not much more than a tin shed as GB says so it won't hold a big crowd anyway. These are facts that I'm sure even the Pigs management is considering closely.

btw, just so you know how totally out of order your little dig was, GB probably attends more Pigs games than most of their supporters on this board.

[Poida]

Cockburn.......what a dive that place was.

[Wallitron]

Its a fact that the Whitlam Centre and the Penrith stadium are not good enough as NBL venues - how will they be up to scratch in time for the season to start? As I stated in another thread I WILL go to Pigs and Hawks games next season - I most definately will not walk away from basketball

I don't get it, people are calling it the National Bush League, and in the same breath rolling their eyes at the Pigs playing out of Liverpool. What would you rather, zero teams in Sydney because they can't afford playing out of the Superdome or SEC, or two teams playing out of SSC and Liverpool. I know what I'd rather. I also know where I'd rather watch basketball. Comparing the SEC with 10k at game 5 to 5k hanging from the rafters at the SSC is no comparison. A full house at Whitlam is also nothing to sneeze at (3000).

Seating numbers don't mean much. Just compare the 50k at Suncorp to the 67k at ANZ for State of Origin. Even look at the 18k they cram into Leichhart Oval when the Tigers play. For crowd atmosphere, and being close to the action, I'll take Liverpool over the SEC any time.

I'd even like to see them price the games to they filled the place regularly. Get it rocking like the high school and small college gyms in the US.

[Daevo]

Its a fact that the Whitlam Centre and the Penrith stadium are not good enough as NBL venues - how will they be up to scratch in time for the season to start? As I stated in another thread I WILL go to Pigs and Hawks games next season - I most definately will not walk away from basketball

I don't get it, people are calling it the National Bush League, and in the same breath rolling their eyes at the Pigs playing out of Liverpool.
I thought the fact a team from the largest city in the country in an elite national professional competition has to move pretty much into the bush to find a stadium they can afford to play in shows exactly why it is a National Bush League.

[Earnie Shavers]

That's the spirit. Bag the crosstown rivals to make yourself feel better.
It's not exactly bagging TC....the Pigs moving to Liverpool would be like playing out of the local stadium at Cockburn or Gosnells.

Except triple the distance.

Edit: Having a look at Sydney v Perth on Google Maps, the equivalent distance from the Sydney CBD to Liverpool will have you well outside the entire greater Perth area in almost all directions. Only the spread alongside the very coastal edge north and south stretches further.

[Wallitron]

I thought the fact a team from the largest city in the country in an elite national professional competition has to move pretty much into the bush to find a stadium they can afford to play in shows exactly why it is a National Bush League.

I'm not arguing whether it's a bush league or not, I'm asking what would you rather. Two viable teams playing in a "bush league", or teams that are $1.5 million in debt and reliant on jokers like Johnson, Groves and McPeak to survive? If calling the Whitlam centre a "tin shed" isn't bagging the Pigs, maybe we should start calling the SEC "the coffin".

[Da Houndawg #55]

Cockburn.......what a dive that place was.
So... News just in Cockburn - A pain in the arse...

[Silencer83]

[quote="The Customer":2vzugg8k]That's the spirit. Bag the crosstown rivals to make yourself feel better.
It's not exactly bagging TC....the Pigs moving to Liverpool would be like playing out of the local stadium at Cockburn or Gosnells.

Except triple the distance.

Edit: Having a look at Sydney v Perth on Google Maps, the equivalent distance from the Sydney CBD to Liverpool will have you well outside the entire greater Perth area in almost all directions. Only the spread alongside the very coastal edge north and south stretches further.[/quote:2vzugg8k]

That is because all major centres tend to be along the coast in WA, it is where we have built. Looking at Whereis.com, Sydney to Liverpool is similar to Perth to Gosnells (39.5 to 33) or Perth to Clarkson (39.2) and I used to make the journey from Clarkson to Perth for every match in my first season as a Wildcats member.

[Mammon]

kings' lose is pigs' gain, it's time to change west sydney razorbacks to sydney razorbacks for the purpose of luring b'ball fans from other parts of sydney to surpport the pigs.