Breakers Off-Season Thread

[Soft Copy]

Following tonight's largely disappointing display against the Bullets, I'm feeling the need to focus on the future.

It has to be said we did well this season after losing our two imports and replaced them well.

Most of the team appear to be signed for next season according to GM Richard Clarke. Mika and Paora have not agreed terms yet and we don't have any of our four imports locked in yet. Appaerntly Rickert, Turner and Alston are all keen with Greene still weighing up his options. Apart from them it seems the team won't be changing much for next season.

Is this a good thing? Usually it is, however, is there a piece of the jigsaw missing that we could adress in the off-season? Personally, I'd like to see a three man who can post up in order to give us an aditional option on offence if our perimiter game gets shut down as it did against the Bullets. Penney can do this - he did it often at Wisconsin but it doesn't seem to be part of Andrej's game-plan.

[NZB]

Tough decision with our imports.

Obviously Orien probably harbours dreams of getting back into the NBA, s his situation will be rather unclear.

Turner was a solid player and all-round great club man, but the quickness he once had (a major part of his game) may be gone.

Alston we all know will be 36 this year, but filled in admirably. Age is a concern, considering we're looking to keep a core group together.

Rickert is a guy I'd like to keep if he is healthy. Great rapport with Penney and was a legit player before his injury.

I'd take Greene and Rickert if we could.

Other options - Kavossy Franklin?

[nzbreakers]

I'd like to go with Greene & Rickert.

Turner and Alston have passed their heydays whereas Greene & Rickert are still young and can improve a lot. On the other hand, this also means that Greene & Rickert will be much more difficult for the Breakers to lure back in the squad. IMO, no more of Alston next season whereas I wouldn't be too disappointed with Turner if the team re-sign him for next season.

Our biggest concern is not our imports. We need a legit 3 man who can handle the ball and can slash to the rim with consistency or who can play back to the basket. As we have all witnessed in years of playoff basketball, the defence goes up another level so spot-up shooters don't have much merit unless they can handle the ball under pressure or can post up and open up space for outside shooters. We need an all-rounded player at starting 3 spot and bring the one dimensional Forman off the bench.

We also need a local big guy who is strong and athletic. Behrendorff might have had his best season in his career but that is still far from being a solid backup centre. He is in his late 20s now. I doubt how much he has still to improve. It would be ideal if we can replace him with someone like Pero Vasiljevic or Stephen Hoare. This also provides a quality in our frontline so if Ronaldson slows down in the middle of the season, then we wouldn't have to suffer the same problem as we did this season. We will have 3 solid guys from the big man category who are capable of playing 20~30 mins every night.

Once we improve our depth on our frontcourt department, this could be the year for the Breakers.

My hopeful 2008-09 Breakers Roster will be;

PG: IMPORT / Henare*
SG: Penney* / Jones*
SF: NEWSIGNING / Forman*
PF: Ronaldson* / Vukona
C: IMPORT / NEW SIGNING

*signed for 2008-09 season

[fan since the old snakepit]

The problem, as I alluded to in its own thread, with finding your mythical three man is that, apart from an import which you have already allocated to other spots, there are none available. It's the problem for a lot of teams that dont have Sav (last years version) Sammy Mac (when fit) Ingles (when not part of some stupid 1 man experiment) or Barlow. There aint any.

[bigdog]

Firstly, season 2007/08 has been a thoroughly enjoyable one, and for the first time in Breakers history I sign off the season as a happy man.

Looking ahead.

Coach

Lemanis has done enough this year to retain his role and he gets my support for 2008/09 (which I suspect he will be immensely pleased with having not had it previous years!). He probably would have been kepy on anyway, such is the stability of team management.

Team Balance

I said it preseason, and I think I am still right. The balance of this team is not quite right. There is too much of a logjam at the 2 position. Winatana is capable of starting in this league, yet he sits behind Penney - the teams best player - and Jones. Our best up incoming development players also play 2 - and typically have no career path for them and are subsequently lost to the club - reference Everand Bartlett and the soon to depart Brent Charlteton. I am sure both of these guys could be stars in this league if given a chance...

Three sot

3 is a problem spot. Either Forman or Jones invarible needs to fire to take the pressure of Penney. The Bullets elimination was a good example of what can happen when they dont.

Vukona plays 4 and is very effective there but the club would like to see him play 3 with a more complete outside game.

I am not sure what is wrong with Forman, but he often looks disinterested in an ""aaron olson" sort of way. I perceive he would be most effective in a triangle type offence and not a screening offence as Lemanis runs. He should look to develop a post up game which would give him a secondary option other than his jumper. I think he is more likely to be effective as a player who can go inside more than a player who is looking to develop his outside game, which I believe has been his focus in recent years.

Chris Daniel, a Breakers development player is someone who I beleive has a huge future. 6 foot 7, excellent outside shooter, mobile, good head. The young fella just needs to bulk up and toughen up and he could be a real star. A product of Nenad Vucinc's, Ill be watching him closely in the NZ NBL. But Lemanis has shown no real ability to bring players through in his time at the Breakers so I wonder if this will happen.

4 and 5

At 4 and 5, one of the spots will be filled by an import. Rickert would be fantastic. Alston doesnt have the upside because of age but he really did a great job for us and is hugely underrated. Lets assume they get Rickert - that would be ideal. Ronaldson is aging, but bloody effective. It is a shame the club hasnt managed to attract an up in coming power forward that Ronaldson could mentor. Behrendorf seems effective, but it is hard to know if it is him and his lack of mongrel or lack of playing time that means he'll only ever be a benchman. Either way he needs front up with more or else he should be moved on.


Point Guard

I am not a huge Wayne Turner fan. For me a point guard needs to be able to shoot a three. Invariably Jones and Oscar have off games and atleast with Orien we had another three point threat that could spread the floor. Almost the exact opposite of each other, I am not sure either of these guys is the right fit for the Breakers, but given a choice id go for Green. Henare is a good back up and I think hell benefit from some time off over the break while working on his jumper.

In summary

As much as I love Winatana, and Jones for that matter, one of them is probably surplus to requirements and should be picked up by other clubs. Winatana is not contracted so he is the unlucky one.

Given the lack of small forward options on the market I would probably look to bringing Forman off the bench unless he can add to his game over the break, while moving Vukona to the starting small forward spot and giving him the green light to develop and shoot from the outside. I would also look to play Daniel to see what he has got. He might gazzump the two of them!

Id look to strenghening up the interior with more minutes to Bdorff. If he is not up to it, waive him and sign a Hovarth or a someone else. The extra minutes would come from Vukona, now playing small forward, and Ronaldson logging less minutes because of age.

Regardless, whatever they do I suspect well see better things from the Breakers next year. And I am already looking forward to it!

[NZB]

Getting that 3-man will be hard, especially if we don't use an import slot.

This is where Bradshaw's signature would've given us so much more flexibility (see Perth and Redhage).

What about Jason Smith?

[WilloWildWaves]

I think they should re-sign Rickert definatly, not sure about the others

[nzbreakers]

Is Jacob Holmes a free agent this winter?

I will be more than glad to play him as our starting small forward in front of Forman who will be coming off the bench.

As we all know... Henare has had both of his knee ligaments removed. It will only make his jumpshot look even more disgusting. I have given up on him as many already did.

[nzbreakers]

Getting that 3-man will be hard, especially if we don't use an import slot.

This is where Bradshaw's signature would've given us so much more flexibility (see Perth and Redhage).

What about Jason Smith?

I like the idea. Mika is a very hardworking guy and has shown signs of improvement over the years. Once he improves his jumpshot and ball-handling skills, he will be a solid starter at 3 spot. But I am not sure if this will happen over the winter by the time when the new season tips off.

[isaac]

Rickert would have to be the priority re-signing. Turner is a steady hand (scored at a good clip too: http://www.nblstats.com/gamebygame.php?playerid=11166) while Greene has the outside shot yet is foul prone and a bit reckless. Greene has more upside, but Turner might be more reliable for Lemanis? Someone like Kavossy would have made this side devastating as he brings everything they'd need.

Bradshaw is another one that would've been very useful - start him in the middle, Rickert at PF and back them up with Ronaldson and Vukona - oh well.

A good import PG and Henare would compare favourably with other sides. Henare had a decent year I think - has his flaws, but knows the team, their plays and doesn't back down. Penney and Jones are as good a SG combo as you'll find in the league. Forman has had an average year but they've probably invested too much to bench him. Neither he or Jones have the post game mentioned earlier.

[Soft Copy]

Story in yesterday's Herald:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=21&objectid=10494790

Vukona's not signed yet and I'm betting his agent will be holding off until other teams are (officially) allowed to talk to him. There's not doubting he could fill a role in many other teams and who would blame him for "testing the market" to ascertain his true value. There's also a school of thought that he could well benefit from a stint at another club with a different style, coaching and different players to learn from. I hope this isn't the case and I suspect that Mika would much rather stay here and continue to be part of the Breakers' progress after four previous frustrating seasons.

As bigdog pointed out in his initial post, I'd like to see his outside game become a bigger part of his repetoire and slot into the three spot when needed. His offensive game right now is not really a traditional four one. He doesn't really have a post game due to his size and he tends to rebound from deep for the same reason, especially on O. He gets to the hoop well when overplayed and a more regular outside shot, particularly off the dribble would see him get those oportunities even more often.

[Stumps]

Vukona's not signed yet and I'm betting his agent will be holding off until other teams are (officially) allowed to talk to him. There's not doubting he could fill a role in many other teams and who would blame him for "testing the market" to ascertain his true value. There's also a school of thought that he could well benefit from a stint at another club with a different style, coaching and different players to learn from.
Just like every other bloody Kiwi, coming to Australia to get a job! :P

[Soft Copy]

Another story on Mika's non-signing thus far, plus a tip on who the imports will probably be:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4441563a12155.html

Good to see a decent off-season piece in the paper...

Apparently the club are pretty sure Vukona will be staying but I'm guessing his $$ might need to be significantly improved to facilitate this. Rickert and Turner would be no surprise as imports as the team was travelling pretty well until they both went down and the Breakers are huge on trying to acheive continuity in this area for a few seasons so it makes sense.

[angry ant]

Orien Greene and Rick Rckert.

I wouldn't mind seeing NZ sign a good Aussie Point Guard and start Orien of the bench, ala Dontaye Draper.

[isaac]

They have Henare coming off the bench. An import point guard is their best option there - not too many starting-calibre local point guards available.

If Mika were to relocate (big undertaking for a young family?), Wollongong might suit him as they desperately need a SF I think.

[Cram]

I think Henare has proved to be a very good back up PG. He was always very questionable in the starting spot, but I think he'd be one of the better reserve PG's going around. I think the Breakers could benefit by basically bringing the same team back next year and seeing if they can stay healthy and improve as a group. The only question mark may be around how much longer Bear can go around for.

[Stumps]

Orien Greene and Rick Rckert.

I wouldn't mind seeing NZ sign a good Aussie Point Guard and start Orien of the bench, ala Dontaye Draper.
Greene doesn't strike me as the type who'd come off the bench.

[Soft Copy]

Orien Greene and Rick Rckert.

I wouldn't mind seeing NZ sign a good Aussie Point Guard and start Orien of the bench, ala Dontaye Draper.
Greene doesn't strike me as the type who'd come off the bench.

An neither should he. He won't be there in any case - I think he's the one import we've had who isn't super-keen to return - it will be Turner at starting PG I'll bet.

[NZB]

I'm fine with Rickert.

Turner though, great club man, but does he have a championship run in him?

[NZB]

Obviously Orien wants to go back to the NBA, or at least make some nice coin playing in Europe.

That, or the refs hated his guts.

[Soft Copy]

With Vukona moving on, I guess the club are scouring the land for another 4-man who can get us some offensive boards and, hopefully, one with a post game to counter the fact that Ronaldson will surely be looking to play less minutes in order to preserve his recently injury-prone body.

Has anyone (isaac?) heard anything from within the club as to who they might be looking at? I've not heard a squeak on the rumour-mill.

[isaac]

I'd say they were going for Schenscher but he's now all but signed with Adelaide. There is a back-up plan that sounds positive so hopefully there might be news of that at some point in the future.

I don't think there will be many changes at all - perhaps Winitana (possibly squeezed out by the points cap?) and Vukona (free agency) out, and an 8-10 point player and a rookie coming in (or returning).

[Soft Copy]

Yeah, I guess we've re-signed Henare, Jones, Penney, Foreman, Ronaldson & Behrendorff with probably Rickert and Turner to return. If Winitana stays then there's only one spot to fill. That replacement four-man is looking a pretty crucial signing.

If we could sign another starter in the four spot and keep the original imports then we have the luxury of using Ronaldson off the bench. He doesn't pull down too many boards these days so a rebounding monster who can also score from the block would be ideal:

Import (Turner)
Penney
Foreman
New Signing 4/5 man
Import (Rickert)

Henare
Jones
New Signing 3 man
Ronaldson
Behrendorff

This would give us a much better balanced team with Winitana being the unlucky one to miss out due to the congenstion at the two spot. There's still Ryan Kirsten to try and fit in as well, though again, it doesn't really help the team balance. Again, I'm surprised Lemanis wasn't prepared to play Vukona at three but I guess he has his reasons...

[isaac]

BTW, for those interested, some decent numbers from Ryan Kersten in the SEABL - averaging 20 PPG, 5 RPG, 3 APG - 85% FT, 45% 3P, 42% FG.

Had 25 points in the last game and, guessing from the box score, might've matched up on Adam Gibson (who had 15/9/9)?

[boz_novocastrian]

imports

pg: if not wayne turner then an import pg who is in late 20's

rickert: yes.

alston: 2 old

[boz_novocastrian]

Yeah, I guess we've re-signed Henare, Jones, Penney, Foreman, Ronaldson & Behrendorff with probably Rickert and Turner to return. If Winitana stays then there's only one spot to fill. That replacement four-man is looking a pretty crucial signing.

If we could sign another starter in the four spot and keep the original imports then we have the luxury of using Ronaldson off the bench. He doesn't pull down too many boards these days so a rebounding monster who can also score from the block would be ideal:

Import (Turner)
Penney
Foreman
New Signing 4/5 man
Import (Rickert)

Henare
Jones
New Signing 3 man
Ronaldson
Behrendorff

This would give us a much better balanced team with Winitana being the unlucky one to miss out due to the congenstion at the two spot. There's still Ryan Kirsten to try and fit in as well, though again, it doesn't really help the team balance. Again, I'm surprised Lemanis wasn't prepared to play Vukona at three but I guess he has his reasons...

3 man: what about the pope (john phillip) as a backup
kersten is already signed for the next season as he originally signed a 2 year deal.

as a 4 sign a returning college player .. question on new points are returning college players still classed as 3 points

[Poida]

The Pope has proven that he is not an NBL level player.

[Skindog the Hawk]

The Pope has proven that he is not an NBL level player.

I disagree - Philip's NBL development has been stilted by two successive seasons where there were issues - firstly the 2006/07 NBL season where his minutes dropped as SOJ was introduced, then the 2007 ABA season which he didn't play. His 2007/08 NBL season was woeful because he was lacking the confidence that he'd picked up from dominating the Waratah ABA in 2006.

His form in Waratah so far has been good, and should he continue on through this Waratah ABA season I would have liked to hope that he could carry that good form into the 2008/09 NBL season. Unfortunately I get the feeling that will not occur though. :?

SD.

[Soft Copy]

Apparently there is talk that we might be close to getting a quality 4/5 man as I suggested we need in a previous post. With Mika gone, along with his points loyalty reduction, we will struggle to fit too many more quality players under the cap if we get a starter at 4. Maybe a returning college player at the 3 spot would be the way to go?

Is there a standard points rating for a returning college player?

[isaac]

Yes, 3 points. (Assuming that hasn't changed.)

[Soft Copy]

I guess this guy would fit the bill nicely for our much-needed quality 4/5 guy:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4486333a12155.html

Heck, he might even fill the three spot quite nicely...

Sadly, I don't think it will be for a few seasons, though with Kirk here now, the precedent for former NBA players coming home for a season or two has been set.

I know the Breakers have already tried to sew the seed with him, suggesting that he might like to finish his playing days here at home - it's just a matter of when that might be...

[Cram]

Would be great if he could come into the NBL at some point after his NBA time is done. He's done very well to hang around in the NBA for so long despite never really being a rotation player anywhere he's been.

Even if he just comes back for 1-2 seasons the publicity of having an 8-10 year NBA player coming back to play would be big you would think.

[Soft Copy]

He's done very well to hang around in the NBA for so long despite never really being a rotation player anywhere he's been.

Sean appears to be that rare commodity - someone who retains a roster spot simply for the quality of his practice. Apparently his ability to replicate the play of upcoming opposition big men in practice is an invaluable asset to his more illustrious (starting, or even just playing) teammates, when having limited time to prepare for the next game in a ridiculously full NBA schedule.

I know the money at The Breakers would be nowhere near as good under the cap (though most other clubs don't seem to worry about that, Paul Blackwell), but surely the time has got to come soon, when he decides that actually getting to play the odd game of basketball might be a bit more fun!

[Soft Copy]

Fox Sports reporting Dillon Boucher is leaving the Bullets and suggesting he might play for the Breakers this season:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23579730-23769,00.html

With Bradshaw reportedly leaving as well (though the story reports that talks between the Bullets and him have been "very positive" - is that like a couch having the "full backing of the board"?), though this is unsubstantiated, could we see two more Kiwis on the roster? Looking at the current points:

Signed:

Penney - 10
Jones - 8
Ronaldson - 8
Foreman - 7
Henare - 5
Behrendorff - 6

Not signed:

Rickert - 10
Turner - 9
Boucher - 7
Bradshaw - 9

=79, so that clearly aint going to happen. Points cap is currently 68 and finding a way to shave 11 from this total could be a bit tricky...

These are the external rankings - can anyone shed any light on whether there are internal rankings that are lower, due to loyalty or any other such dispensation?

[isaac]

I think Ronaldson might get 1 or 2 off for past loyalty (not sure if that still applies). Forman is a 6 based on signing a contract at his previous rating. Behrendorff could hopefully get re-rated to a 5 - I think that would be fair.

If they went for Boucher or Bradshaw, it would have to be one or the other?

Swapping in Boucher for Vukona would change the dynamic a bit, IMO, but is it an upgrade? Who's going to pick up Vukona's boards, for example?

[isaac]

From the Courier Mail today:
If Bruton does stay in Australia, it will be either with the Bullets, Cairns Taipans or New Zealand Breakers.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 89,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23588152-10389,00.html)

[Clips]

If Bruton does stay in Australia, it will be either with the Bullets, Cairns Taipans or New Zealand Breakers. Nice... :lol:


I know what they meant, but to a someone who is flicking through and doesn't actually watch the league, that wouldn't make much sense.

[Stumps]

I think Ronaldson might get 1 or 2 off for past loyalty (not sure if that still applies).
I guess if it applied when he signed his current deal, he'll still be the same internal rating as long as that deal lasts.

Forman is a 6 based on signing a contract at his previous rating.
I guess that makes him the last remaining Rashad Tucker scammer? :P

[isaac]

That I'm aware of at least.

(For those not following, Oscar was an 8 after his last season coming off the bench with Adelaide. NZ took him on as an 8, but his first starting season rated him as an 6, making him one of those players who had an internal rating higher than their external rating. Though the loophole has been closed for this season, I believe they cut-and-signed him last season for three years as a 6. His external rating for 08/09 is 7. To be fair, 8 wasn't realistic anyway - should be 6.5-7, IMO.)

[bigdog]

Bruton would be a fantastic signing.

Him and Penney in the back court - wow. Jones and Foreman to boot.

Couple of big imports...

Nice

[isaac]

If they got Bruton, they could not fit in a second import (unless one of the top players was injured). Otherwise, you're right - will be a significant signing if they can pull it off.

[wildscooby]

according to brisbane times bruton and boucher signed

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/bullets-miss-cj-but-snare-gibson/20080424-28da.html

[bigdog]

Isaac - youre kidding me..

I have always pretty much ignored the player rating thing, too complicated and teams seem to be able to manipulate anyhow... Just doesnt make any sense that we couldnt fit in an import when I compare this to other teams...

Imagine complimenting this great signing with say Rickart and Meltzer.

What about Dusty, surely he must come with some cap relief?

Can someone give me rundown of the points situation with the Breakers?

Maybe they shouldnt have signed Boucher. I dont know. It is just ridiculous

[isaac]

Bruton 10/Henare 5
Penney 10/Jones 8?
Forman 6/Boucher 7?
Ronaldson 6 or 7?/rookie? 1
Rickert? 10/Behrendorff 6

Something like that. Must have Rono for 6 and Tim rated down to a 5?

[WHIPS]

Bruton 10/Henare 5
Penney 10/Jones 8?
Forman 6/Boucher 7?
Ronaldson 6 or 7?/rookie? 1
Rickert? 10/Behrendorff 6

Something like that.

I think the four spot is their weak point. Boucher and Bruton are obviously great signings for them.

[isaac]

Agreed, although Jones and Forman can slide down to SF and PF. Losing Vukona, it will be interesting to see where they get their boards. If they retain Rickert, he would have to be favourite for the rebounding title IMO.

Bruton and Penney will be a deadly combination.

[angry ant]

Far out, great signing for the Breakers! So now this means C.J isn't going to Europe?

[glockers]

Is Henare certain to stay?

I think you will find Boucher will spend lots of time at the 4 with Jones switching into the 3 spot off the bench too.

[Stumps]

I have always pretty much ignored the player rating thing, too complicated and teams seem to be able to manipulate anyhow... Just doesnt make any sense that we couldnt fit in an import when I compare this to other teams...
Are you serious? You've got three fringe NBA players in there plus a heap of experienced and talented role players. Even without a second import, they're probably now the closest team to Melbourne in both roster quality and total salary.

[bigdog]

I freely admit I dont get it

Behrendorf a 6? The guy plays about 6 minutes a game! Give me a break.

Cairns had Cat, Jawai, Mee, Black and bunch of scrubs and 2 imports. Kings, Tigers, Brisbane. Naah, bugger off. It doesnt stack up.

Lets be honest, if this implausible situation is true, these signings are average for the Breakers. Bruton is an upgrade on Turner, Boucher a downgrade on vukona.

[nzbreakers]

Breakers certainly needs some bigs who are willing to get their hands dirty and also capable of providing some offensive power under the rim.

Btw, will Penney still be 10? after signing a 2-yr extension at the end of last season?

[fan since the old snakepit]

Bruton 10/Henare 5
Penney 10/Jones 8?
Forman 6/Boucher 7?
Ronaldson 6 or 7?/rookie? 1
Rickert? 10/Behrendorff 6

Something like that. Must have Rono for 6 and Tim rated down to a 5?

Isn't Ronaldsons internal rating less than that?

[isaac]

Bigdog, remember that Cairns got Jawai as a rookie for 1 point which would've helped them significantly.

In one off season, the Breakers brought in Penney and Jones, both with international experience, and the ratings to go with that.

You've raised Behrendorff's rating and I agree it should be more like a 4 (or 5 tops), but is that your only complaint? I would think Boucher could be a touch lower, but apart from that the ratings aren't too unreasonable - certainly not enough to easily free up points for another import.

(BTW, Matt Smith from Cairns had arguably better stats than Behrendorff in fewer minutes, yet is rated a 4! http://www.nblstats.com/headtohead.php? ... rtwo=11066 (http://www.nblstats.com/headtohead.php?playerone=10076&playertwo=11066))

With Vukona, they had little choice as he elected for free agency (which made him an 8 point player) and they could no longer fit him in without severely restricting other opportunities - e.g., Schenscher, Bradshaw, etc.

[bigdog]

Id have to ask the question on Henare. He has played, what 5 seasons for the Breakers? Dont you get a discount each year for loyalty? Does this mean he started off as a 10?!?

Dear oh dear.

Using the Homer Simpson rating scale (one I can understand). 1 is the bottom, 10 is the top, 5 is somewhere in the middle... If you lined all the players in the NBL 10 man rosters up in order from good to bad. Would Henare be somewhere in the middle? I dont think so.

Foreman seems fair, but sounds like he went through a process to get there.

Jones and Boucher seem high. These guys are bench players now. Same with Ronaldson...

[isaac]

No, there is no deduction each year and five is his external rating anyway I think? If so, reasonable enough given that he has started in the past. Jones averaged 14 PPG off the bench last year and was a chance for Sixth Man of the Year - a rating of 8 isn't far off.

[Stumps]

Jones and Boucher seem high. These guys are bench players now.
... because they're on a stacked team. By that logic, no team could ever break the points cap because they'd always have at least five bench players.

[bigdog]

ok, ill concede on Jones. He's an 8.

But Boucher a 7? I didnt see him play much last year, but a 7? Really? The same as Ronaldson, more than Foreman?

Were does one go to study this player points thing? I want to read the fine print. Because I just dont get it. Everyone rates so damn high! You wouldnt want to be a 3 or a 4. Man, you'd be embarrassed to go out of the house in the morning with the way they throw around 7, 8's and 9s... If you were a 1 or a 2 you'd want to chop yourself. Have the league never heard of a bell curve?

I am slowly accepting this, reluctantly. But I think it is a wrought, because other teams are / have been far more stacked.

If Henare is truly a 5, we'd be better to cut him. I wouldn't have signed Boucher at a 7 in a million years. We'd have been better to have gone for Kersten at the point and gotten a decent (second) import at the 4. Someone will probably post back that Kersten is rated a 12 or so. "Suffering Suffergettes"

Regards,
Bamboozelled of Auckland

[Stumps]

Players who have less than a 5 rarely hit the court at all. A 5 for a guy who plays for his national team is surprisingly LOW, not high.

[UserFriendlyRoll]

Found this little inside info on John Rillies web site today.

As I began writing my revised blog for the day, I was going to call out CJ Bruton on his talk of a "lucrative" Europe deal. In the meantime, CJ has committed to the New Zealand Breakers (along with Dillon Boucher in case you cared.) This was going to be exactly my point on Bruton but he pulled the trigger quicker than what I thought. To me CJ was always going to stay in the NBL. He has used the Europe card too many times without setting foot in Europe. Then after a day or two has passed he then decides Australia (or now New Zealand) is the place for him and his family.

[havrilla the gorilla]

Obviously his reputation proceeds him with his fellow constituants along with fans of the NBL. The only thing CJ will be remebered for in 50 years is his name and at the moment that aint a whole lot.

New Zealand I hope you realise what you are getting yourselves into, and Sydney and Brisbane fans boo him even louder on his return to those venues next season. :evil:

[bigdog]

stumps wrote

... because they're on a stacked team. By that logic, no team could ever break the points cap because they'd always have at least five bench players.

By my logic, half of the players in the NBL should be rated a 5 or under - a statistical concept. It follows that many of these players would be bench players, but not necessarily. I agree just because they are bench players doesnt make them a 5 and below.

stumps wrote

A 5 for a guy who plays for his national team is surprisingly LOW, not high.

Irrelevant I would have thought.

We have players in the Tall blacks who cant even crack an NBL roster. Ben Hill, Michael Fitchett. Last year on the Breakers Michael Fitchett sat as a development player behind that runty little guard from West Sydney whose name (ironically) escapes me. That bloke was was defintately was a 1! LOL

Singapore and NZ dont have the basketball riches of Australia. Can you imagine Pathman getting a rating of 5 because he played for his national team. Someone more educated on the player points system than me is going to point our he is rated a 5 right. Please don't. Allow me to live in my happy little world where things make sense.

[Stumps]

By my logic, half of the players in the NBL should be rated a 5 or under - a statistical concept.
You're assuming an even distribution, which is not the case. There are as many players rated 10 alone (not even including new imports) as there are total players rated less than 5. Check the list here: http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=player-rankings

A 5 for a guy who plays for his national team is surprisingly LOW, not high.
Irrelevant I would have thought.

We have players in the Tall blacks who cant even crack an NBL roster. Ben Hill, Michael Fitchett. Last year on the Breakers Michael Fitchett sat as a development player behind that runty little guard from West Sydney whose name (ironically) escapes me. That bloke was was defintately was a 1! LOL
Do these guys play significant minutes for NZ? Henare is an experienced national team stalwart. I agree that you certainly don't want him starting for a good NBL team due to a couple of significant flaws in his game, but he's very good value at 5 (take a look at the other players on that rating and tell me he doesn't belong AT LEAST in that company).

[meg]

that runty little guard from West Sydney whose name (ironically) escapes me. That bloke was was defintately was a 1! LOL



Adam Darragh?

[bigdog]

Thats right - Adam Darragh. Not sure what the Breakers were thinking there, but that is yesterday's news and they seem to be smarter now. Nothing against the guy personally but he should have been sitting in the stands watching the game like me, not playing.

Stumps - you are right. Henare is rated fairly in that group. You are also right that I assumed an even distribution and as you point our this is certainly not the case. That is the issue right there for me - the distribution should be even and it isnt.

[nzbreakers]

I was just thinking that maybe we can release Paul Henare and promote Ryan Kersten to the 10-man playing roster so that we can be more flexible with the point-cap.

I think Ryan Kersten will be rated at 1 or 2. He is a pretty damn good backup point guard for that certain value, IMO.

As far as I hated Henare starting at the point for many years in the past, still consider him as an average backup point guard. However, we are now getting a bit tight with the pointcap system. Cutting him and bringing Kersten into the lineup could be used wisely to help the case.

[Soft Copy]

I was just thinking that maybe we can release Paul Henare and promote Ryan Kersten to the 10-man playing roster so that we can be more flexible with the point-cap.

I think Ryan Kersten will be rated at 1 or 2. He is a pretty damn good backup point guard for that certain value, IMO.

As far as I hated Henare starting at the point for many years in the past, still consider him as an average backup point guard. However, we are now getting a bit tight with the pointcap system. Cutting him and bringing Kersten into the lineup could be used wisely to help the case.

Henare is contracted so that won't happen (even though I think you're right and it would make perfect sense). Apparently Pauli has been doing a heap of work on his shot and, from what I saw of the Hawks/Pistons game last Thursday, it seems to be paying off. He shot pretty well and was a genuine three point threat. It also worked in getting the defensive player to commit more to him, opening up the drive option which he also did pretty well.

17 points (7/13), 1 3pt (1/3), FT 2/4, 8 Reb, 3 Asst, 2 TO, 2 St in 40:54 (1OT game)

[isaac]

Kersten is leaving the Breakers.

Henare may have been already contracted (preventing that import-instead-of-boucher plan). Regardless, I think a rating of 5 for him is not unreasonable.

Chris Daniels is signing with the Slingers too.

[Soft Copy]

Kersten is leaving the Breakers.

Henare may have been already contracted (preventing that import-instead-of-boucher plan). Regardless, I think a rating of 5 for him is not unreasonable.

Chris Daniels is signing with the Slingers too.

Where is Kersten going? He'll be a good pick-up for some lucky team. The guy is going to be a seriously good player. Henare was already contracted and, while he's no starter, is really good value at a 5 in the cap.

I'm really wondering what the Breakers' next recruiting move is now. Rickert is an obvious target if he's still keen but what points we'll have left over to spend on another big is a little confusing. It seems as if we'll be running with only one import in any case.

[isaac]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 71,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23595831-5006371,00.html)

[bigdog]

Chris Daniels is a serious talent.

[Soft Copy]

Chris Daniels is a serious talent.

I don't know much about him and am finding it hard to keep up with the NZ NBL with only one televised game and very little else to go on (including the weird format they use to do their reporting on the Basketball New Zealand site).

Bigdog, can you tell us about him and how he's going (assume total ignorance - I won't be offended)?

[Essen]

Big Dog is correct regarding Chris Daniel. He's about a 6'6" shooting guard, great shot, quite athletic and has got a good head on his shoulders. Will probably have a big time break out year in the NZ NBL next season. Unfortunate that he won't be with the Breakers, however if he can get some steady playing time at Singapore which would not be possible over here, it will do wonders for his development.

[bigdog]

Chris Daniel is deceptively tall. Essen reckons 6'6" but I have seen 6'7 reported.

He has a fantastic outside jumper, shots a very high percentage. He is also athletic - a beautifully balanced player who always seems to have time on his hands. Very smooth

He plays on an underperforming Nelson Giants team right now, where I haven checked the stats but he seems to be putting up similar numbers to Phil Jones, maybe a shade less

His defence is nothing special, neither is his handles nor his strength. But he has upside and seems to be improving his game each time I see him including these areas...

He is young and he makes very good decisions, although sometimes fades out of games.

[bigdog]

Kersten has gone to the 36ers. That proved to be a good signing for the Breakers didnt it.

[Soft Copy]

Kersten has gone to the 36ers. That proved to be a good signing for the Breakers didnt it.

Some of their signings have me scratching my head, loading a couple of positions and ignoring others. Why on earth did they sign Kersten when it was their stated intention to get an import PG and they already had Henare under contract as the back-up? I know Pauli was injured early last season, but it's still a strange one if you're not looking to the future with him. Also, as you put it while back bigdog, the"logjam" at the shooting guard spot is puzzling. What was Winitana really doing there? I, like you, think he's a good player but he was really surplus to requirements and often his minutes almost reeked of, we'd-better-give-him-some-time-on-court.We had that spot covered already and really needed another 4 man who could maybe play 3.

[isaac]

I think Kersten may have been targeted when Henare was looking at shopping himself around during that season.

In Ronaldson, Forman and Vukona they have guys that can play PF/SF and generally run Jones sharing SF with Forman. I do agree that the weakpoint now is probably PF and rebounding.

[Soft Copy]

As reported in the footnote to this story (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=21&objectid=10508721), Dillon Boucher has been formally released by Brisbane and the Breakers are free to sign him.

[angry ant]

Chris Daniel has left for the Slingers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelsonmail/4514708a6419.html

[Mammon]

08/09 nz breakers:

bench

pg - Paul Henare
sg - Phill Jones
sf - Dillon Boucher
pf - Tony Ronaldson
c - Tim Behrendorff

starters

pg - CJ Bruton
sg - Kirk Penney
sf - Oscar Forman
pf - import no. 1
c - import no. 2

all we need right now r 2 top class imports (e.g. Rick Rickert and Carlos Powell) and then we should be legitimate title contenders for season 08/09.

[Shannon Noll]

08/09 nz breakers:

all we need right now r 2 top class imports (e.g. Rick Rickert and Carlos Powell) and then we should be legitimate title contenders for season 08/09.

If you get Rickert you're in with a show.

[Soft Copy]

08/09 nz breakers:

bench

pg - Paul Henare
sg - Phill Jones
sf - Dillon Boucher
pf - Tony Ronaldson
c - Tim Behrendorff

starters

pg - CJ Bruton
sg - Kirk Penney
sf - Oscar Forman
pf - import no. 1
c - import no. 2

all we need right now r 2 top class imports (e.g. Rick Rickert and Carlos Powell) and then we should be legitimate title contenders for season 08/09.
We can't sign two imports as, by my calculations, we only have 14 more points to spend under the cap. Rickert is the obvious choice for ten of those points, if he's over his injury, which leavese only four to spend on hopefully another promising young big.

Tactically, the Breakers have suffered here through not grabbing a good young returning guy out of college in the past and signing him at say a three and then retaining that internal points value for coming seasons, freeing up points to spend on the likes of Bruton. The departure of Vukona has hurt us here for the same reason as his internal rating at the Breakers would have been nowhere near the eight he is now. As I've said before, the signing of Bruton isn't quite the coup that it's being descibed as because we're simply spending points that had been ear-marked for an import in order to get him. They really need to start this process now with one of their last two of this season's signings which will pay dividends in future seasons.

Supposedly, we have CJ for three seasons (though his track record would suggest he may want to be released to take up a lucrative "European" offer before that time is up, only to surface with another NBL club a coulpe of weeks later). Wouldn't this be a bit like stealing another bloke's wife and then being surprised when she cheats on you with someone else?

[Mammon]

We can't sign two imports as, by my calculations, we only have 14 more points to spend under the cap.


can we get an extra 6 points by dumping that no-brainer whom has a weird name and upgrade fat ass ronaldson to a player-coach role?


Supposedly, we have CJ for three seasons (though his track record would suggest he may want to be released to take up a lucrative "European" offer before that time is up, only to surface with another NBL club a coulpe of weeks later). Wouldn't this be a bit like stealing another bloke's wife and then being surprised when she cheats on you with someone else?

err... i believe it's the husband whom cheated on his wife in this case.

[NZB]

Back after a long sojourn!

Rickert has to be a priority. I loved what he brought to the table last season before injury; hopefully he is over those injuries.

And, for the make-up of the team, the way that it looks, we could be formed like the San Antonio Spurs.
Parker -> CJ
Manu -> Kirk
TD -> Rickert
Bowen/Udoka -> Boucher
Finley -> Jones

I've come up with a few lineup ideas:
1 . Start CJ-Jones-Boucher-Ronaldson-Rickert and have: Henare-Penney-Forman-XXXX-Behrendorff off the bench
Firepower a la Ginobili (in KP) coming off the bench. Breakers clearly struggled without Penney on the floor last season; if we have at least one of the two (KP and CJ) on at ALL times, we will always have a scorer. Boucher and Forman bring something different to the table; Forman's a guy who can light it up with a bit of confidence, which CJ could provide. Boucher is a very key piece, and is better served starting. If he ain't effective, take him off, and bring him back on in certain situations.

[Mammon]

jones is a bit 2 old as a starter, in fact, i'd probably pick brendon polyblank or ben hill and release jones if i were the breakers coach.

[boz_novocastrian]

I've come up with a few lineup ideas:
1 . Start CJ-Jones-Boucher-Ronaldson-Rickert and have: Henare-Penney-Forman-XXXX-Behrendorff off the bench
Firepower a la Ginobili (in KP) coming off the bench. Breakers clearly struggled without Penney on the floor last season; if we have at least one of the two (KP and CJ) on at ALL times, we will always have a scorer. Boucher and Forman bring something different to the table; Forman's a guy who can light it up with a bit of confidence, which CJ could provide. Boucher is a very key piece, and is better served starting. If he ain't effective, take him off, and bring him back on in certain situations.

For me i would go with the folllowing:

PG: CJ
SG: Penney
SF: Boucher
PF: Forman
C: Rickert

Bench
Henare, Jones, Ronaldson, Behrendorff, young kiwi up and comer, polybank

[Soft Copy]

So with Winitana signing with the 36ers (http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75004), I guess we're still looking for a productive way to spend the whole four points we'll have left over once we nab our only import.

As I've said before, I didn't think Winitana would have been the right choice in any case, not so much due to ability, but more to do with the make-up of the roster and the congenstion it would have created at the 2/3 spots.

I'm surmising that the Breakers are looking for a hard-working four or five who will bang some bodies, grab some boards, score those two footers and generally mix it up in his limited minutes.

I wonder if they've spoken to Matt Smith from Cairns (four point rating), who had some time with them a couple of seasons ago, but seems to be a significantly improved player since that time. He's still in the undetermined bracket on the Taipans section of the "Transaction Tracker" and I know he's made useful contributions in a couple of games against the Breakers over the past couple of seasons. Not a great player on the block but he's certainly the type who could get himself in good postions to take advantage of any defensive help his man may have to commit to, should our guards penetrate, and he'll give an honest effort on D.

He averaged 4.2 points and about 2.5 rebounds in 9.3 minutes per game last season at a respectable 57% shooting and had 15 blocks in 25 games for the season. Most importantly he appears to know exactly what he's there for and gives 100% always. I'd have him on my roster.

[Essen]

I'd prefer for the minor slots on the team to be occupied by Kiwis, rather than old Australian journeymen.

How about taking a punt on a young guy like Benny Anthony Jnr? Christopher Reay? There are a few options. In fact, I wouldn't necessarily mind Ben Hill for that role.

[bigdog]

Essen, I agree.

what about Link Abrams?

[Silencer83]

The problem with picking up Matt Smith would be that it would give you two centres on the bench who can only really play as Centres, what would be preferable would be a Kiwi 4/5 who can play both positions

[isaac]

Are they obliged to have a Young Australian Player in the team (or the Kiwi equivalent) like the Australian clubs?

[Stumps]

Excellent question -- yet another anomaly coming out of the NBL/BA merger.

[angry ant]

Rickert needs to pass a medical test to re-join the club, Dillon Boucher and Andrej Lemanis say they have moved on from past differences-

http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75021

[Soft Copy]

I'd prefer for the minor slots on the team to be occupied by Kiwis, rather than old Australian journeymen.

How about taking a punt on a young guy like Benny Anthony Jnr? Christopher Reay? There are a few options. In fact, I wouldn't necessarily mind Ben Hill for that role.

Good point re the remaining player being a kiwi though I don't think Ben Hill would be the right guy. I think they need someone a little more athletic. There's no doubting Hill's scoring ability but his isn't the sort of game they need. If Homik was any good, he'd be the type of player they're after but sadly, he's not of the class required to foot it in the NBL.

[Soft Copy]

Are they obliged to have a Young Australian Player in the team (or the Kiwi equivalent) like the Australian clubs?
If they're not, then they should be. All teams in the league should have to abide by the same rules and guidelines.

[George the Gragon]

Breakers are working out Harms from Frankston and Hobba from Dandenong this week.

[Poida]

Nice to see Harms getting a shot. He played a season at Metro State, and I believe he hit 10 3's on the weekend in the SEABL!

[Soft Copy]

Breakers are working out Harms from Frankston and Hobba from Dandenong this week.

Can someone tell me a bit about Harms?

[Poida]

Combo guard currently averaging 22, 4 and 5 in the SEABL. Turns 23 this year I think.

[isaac]

Was over in NZ to catch the last couple of Harbour Heat games. Behrendorff had his way with the Rampton boys in the Taranaki game, and then Forman had a barrage of threes against the Pistons to help the Heat to a win on the road. I know they aren't Breakers, but Hayden Allen was good in both games and Vukona had 3/4 threes (from memory) up against Pero. Quickly became a fan of Jarrod Kenny's game too. Jason Crowe racked up stats for Waikato and Brian Wethers had 20+ despite a bad back. After Crowe slapped Behrendorff (and got an unsportsmanlike, I think), my associate had great delight in yelling out "How's the Gold Coast?"

Had a chance to visit the Breakers' offices and practice facility a couple of times (look for the half-court shoot-out scoreline on the whiteboard) and met a few of the crew who were all great. I know you read OzHoops and seemingly catalogue how many times I post, so thanks again for the tickets Paul!

[Soft Copy]

Combo guard currently averaging 22, 4 and 5 in the SEABL. Turns 23 this year I think.

..so obviously with our dearth of guards (we only have Bruton, Henare, Penney & Jones) we need to scour the d-leagues for someone decent....

[Soft Copy]

I know you read OzHoops and seemingly catalogue how many times I post, so thanks again for the tickets Paul!

Paul, since you read Ozhoops, could you also let your staff know that there are committed fans scouring the web for news on the team, signings etc... but your website is not providing the info it should or at least could - there were about three new postings on the Breakers site last month. How about at least a weekly update on who's winning the free-throw comp, how the community stuff is going, how the academy guys have gone in their comp?..?...?

Thow us a bone mate....

[angry ant]

Veteran New Zealand Breakers shooting guard Phill Jones has retired from international basketball after 14 years in the New Zealand Tall Blacks.

http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75099

[Poida]

Dam, NZ are gonna struggle to put together a competitive side for the upcoming Boomers games.

His withdrawal means at least five of the 12-man squad that faced Australia in last year’s FIBA Oceania Championships will not take the court in 2008. He joins point guards Mark Dickel and Paul Henare, forward Dillon Boucher and centre Tony Rampton on the sidelines.

[Soft Copy]

Dam, NZ are gonna struggle to put together a competitive side for the upcoming Boomers games.

Tait, Penney, Vukona, Cameron, Bradshaw, Horvath/Frank... um, someone else who's okay... and someone else...

I'd say we'll be in that great euphemism, the "rebuilding phase" for a quite a while now.

[Poida]

Gonna struggle at the point by the looks of it. Who's likely to backup Tait?

Horvath/Frank isn't an intimidating prospect. Definitely deep in the rebuilding phase now.

[Soft Copy]

Paul, since you read Ozhoops, could you also let your staff know that there are committed fans scouring the web for news on the team, signings etc...

To any Breakers folk who read these boards, excellent article on your website today re the Academy players' achievments. This is exactly the sort of stuff that will keep fans coming back to your site in the off-season. Good effort.

[Essen]

[quote="Soft Copy":3f2qjrr3]Paul, since you read Ozhoops, could you also let your staff know that there are committed fans scouring the web for news on the team, signings etc...

To any Breakers folk who read these boards, excellent article on your website today re the Academy players' achievments. This is exactly the sort of stuff that will keep fans coming back to your site in the off-season. Good effort.[/quote:3f2qjrr3]

Both those players will be great one day, but Brad is going to be an absolute gun. Coached against him at that tournament and damn, he is insanely good. Has the body, the athleticism, the skills and the smarts. Just an unheard of type talent at that level in NZ.

Brad Anderson. Remember the name :wink:

[Soft Copy]

Both those players will be great one day, but Brad is going to be an absolute gun. Coached against him at that tournament and damn, he is insanely good. Has the body, the athleticism, the skills and the smarts. Just an unheard of type talent at that level in NZ.

Brad Anderson. Remember the name :wink:

A very smart move by the Breakers to align themselves so closely with (and help develop) the emerging talent in this country. This is the sort of thing that could pay big dividends in the future. If they can pick up a couple of good players at the development level and retain them as they become genuine contenders in the NBL, they'll be in good shape regarding the points cap, leaving plenty to "spend" on quality to fill their squad.

As I've said before, the Breakers may have picked up a great player in CJ but have spent points they would have otherwise used for a second import leaving them perhaps no better off.

[isaac]

I think it was a no-brainer to take on CJ at the expense of an import. Firstly, he's a known quantity. You'd take him before Orien, Turner, Wooten, Wethers, etc and you know you've got a guy who can win games. Secondly, he's on a multi-year deal meaning that it's quite possible that the club can rework things in subsequent years to get an import in the team. Maybe Jones' points rating comes down a bit, or Ronaldson and/or Boucher retire, etc.

[Soft Copy]

I think it was a no-brainer to take on CJ at the expense of an import. Firstly, he's a known quantity. You'd take him before Orien, Turner, Wooten, Wethers, etc and you know you've got a guy who can win games. Secondly, he's on a multi-year deal meaning that it's quite possible that the club can rework things in subsequent years to get an import in the team. Maybe Jones' points rating comes down a bit, or Ronaldson and/or Boucher retire, etc.

Yeah, you have a point there - I'm just suggesting that, in an ideal world, you get players of CJ's calibre and two imports, through judicious signings to make best use of the points cap. I see today that the Breakers have signed a couple of very promising young guys as their development players. Corey Webster and Thomas Abercrombie (http://www.nzbreakers.co.nz/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75110) can both play and Abercrombie in particular could become a real force in the NBL I'm picking. It's just these sorts of signings that could help them with the points cap in future.

[isaac]

They have CJ, Penney, an import and still have Jones coming off the bench. Both CJ and Penney are top-tier players and you'd take either over most imports. At some point, you have to wonder if you're being too greedy, that's all - the points cap is there to bring parity to the league and prevent teams from loading up while some sides struggle to have any marquee players that aren't imports (e.g., West Sydney, Wollongong and Singapore are examples). The same happens in topics/forums about the 36ers - we've had a decent off-season, are in a good position should Ballinger naturalise, yet people are still wanting more because they are fearful of the two Melbourne sides.

[Soft Copy]

They have CJ, Penney, an import and still have Jones coming off the bench. Both CJ and Penney are top-tier players and you'd take either over most imports. At some point, you have to wonder if you're being too greedy, that's all - the points cap is there to bring parity to the league and prevent teams from loading up while some sides struggle to have any marquee players that aren't imports (e.g., West Sydney, Wollongong and Singapore are examples). The same happens in topics/forums about the 36ers - we've had a decent off-season, are in a good position should Ballinger naturalise, yet people are still wanting more because they are fearful of the two Melbourne sides.

Yeah, I don't know if "greedy" is the right word for it - the points cap is designed to reward loyalty to, and development of players as well as create a level playing field. All I'm suggesting is that scouring the landscape for the best players is obviously beneficial but developing players and recruiting on promise rather than out and out form would pay dividends in the future. I mean, Joe Ingles has an internal rating of 1, that's a lot of points saved on a starter to spend further down the roster.

[isaac]

I guess missing Bradshaw was unfortunate and they haven't had the minutes for Kersten and Daniels. Abercrombie gives them a fresh chance though.

[Essen]

Yeah, you have a point there - I'm just suggesting that, in an ideal world, you get players of CJ's calibre and two imports, through judicious signings to make best use of the points cap. I see today that the Breakers have signed a couple of very promising young guys as their development players. Corey Webster and Thomas Abercrombie (http://www.nzbreakers.co.nz/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75110) can both play and Abercrombie in particular could become a real force in the NBL I'm picking. It's just these sorts of signings that could help them with the points cap in future.

Wow. These signings are definitely unexpected - seemingly neither didn't settle well in the States? Both products of the Westlake Boys dynasty, they have already put in some great individual performances against top Australian competition.

The Breakers talent development will make them a future powerhouse in the league. That is if there is a league to play in :(

[Soft Copy]

Are they obliged to have a Young Australian Player in the team (or the Kiwi equivalent) like the Australian clubs?

Do we know the answer to this question yet? Could someone from the league or the Breakers enlighten us?

[Soft Copy]

Breakers General Manager Richard Clarke interview (http://www.radiosport.co.nz/AudioBank/FeaturedInterviews/) on the demise of the Kings, the resulting scheduling problems with the draw, the general state of the league and the Breakers' impending signing of Rick Rickert. 4th interview from top.

The Radio Sport "Featured Interviews" web page is constantly updated so, if you don't listen on the date of this post, it may not still be there.

[angry ant]

Breakers re-sign Rickert, add Tanner
The New Zealand Breakers roster for the 2008/09 season has been completed with the re-signing of import Rick Rickert and the addition of University of Denver forward Adam Tanner.

http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75205

[Soft Copy]

Breakers re-sign Rickert, add Tanner
The New Zealand Breakers roster for the 2008/09 season has been completed with the re-signing of import Rick Rickert and the addition of University of Denver forward Adam Tanner.
Excellent! The signing of Rickert was key for me. He's a known quantity, his performances can be "talismanic" at his best and it gives them consistency of roster in an extremely key position.

Tanner is interesting as well and gives the bench a more balanced look this season than last. His rebounding stats don't look too awesome but lets hope it's because he was surrounded by others who did the job pretty well at college. I still think this is an area we might struggle this season (though before Rickert's injury we were well up the rebounding stats last season, only to fall away).

The roster is pretty impressive though and, with only Penney and possibly Abercrombie travelling with the Tall Blacks, our pre-season should be a lot more productive than in past years when we have started slowly due to lack of prep and cohesion.

Check out this: "Rick Rickert Goes Pro in New Zealand" (http://kstp.com/article/stories/s457635.shtml?cat=1) - pretty hard-hitting stuff!

[isaac]

In the video he mentions his dog. Heard some story that he and his partner flew all the way to NZ with the dog chilling in their carry-on luggage until it was noticed at customs on arrival and they had to send it back!

[Soft Copy]

In the video he mentions his dog. Heard some story that he and his partner flew all the way to NZ with the dog chilling in their carry-on luggage until it was noticed at customs on arrival and they had to send it back!

Oh, surely not!?! Man, you gotta love those mid-westerners - they're so goddamn worldly...

[Ceelo]

In the video he mentions his dog. Heard some story that he and his partner flew all the way to NZ with the dog chilling in their carry-on luggage until it was noticed at customs on arrival and they had to send it back!

Yeah I heard that one when I was in Hamilton last year.

[Mammon]

wtf more ozs than kiwis in a "kiwi team" and just 1 import? has he lost his mind? can he see or is he blind??? we got enough talent to fill 2 or 3 nbl teams in nz mate. it's time for andrej sh*thouse to change his team to oz breakers, i won't follow them this season anyway.

[isaac]

Wait, do you want more Kiwis or more imports?

[Soft Copy]

wtf more ozs than kiwis in a "kiwi team" and just 1 import? has he lost his mind? can he see or is he blind??? we got enough talent to fill 2 or 3 nbl teams in nz mate. it's time for andrej sh*thouse to change his team to oz breakers, i won't follow them this season anyway.

Good!

Don't descimate the average IQ of a Breakers crowd by showing up at any games - instead, do us all a favour and stay at home, please stay off the boards, and concentrate on whinging away to your school friends (who presumably, like you, don't use capitals, correct punctuation, or any sense of reasoning, when postulating on what it takes to be a competitive team in this league). Acne's a bitch huh?

Oh, and one other point dickhead - you do realise that the other import we haven't signed wouldn't be a Kiwi either don't you?

[Soft Copy]

Wait, do you want more Kiwis or more imports?

Nice Isaac - I tried not to get annoyed, but just somehow couldn't really help it. That comment just smacks of small-minded Kiwi childishness.

[Soft Copy]

Hey Mammon, if it's not past your bedtime yet, I've got some homework for you:

I know I suggested that you probably shouldn't contribute further to this forum but, I realise that I am probably judging you prematurely ansd so would like to give you the opportunity to explain yourself (try and use capitals and punctuate correctly).

I'm curious - what exactly would be your roster of eight Kiwi players, allowing for two imports (who are not involved with any current NBL teams except the Breakers) to fill your first team?

Then, could you give us the eight who would fill the non-imorts spots of the second?

Then (and I accept you said "2 or 3" so I'll allow you some laitude here) could you give us the third eight?

Come on mate - let's get some healthy debate started

[isaac]

Are they allowed to use the guys in Europe and the NBA? Dickel, Bradshaw, Marks, anyone I've forgotten?

Excluding those, you've got Vukona, Rampton, Cameron, Frank, Winitana, Tait, Daniel and Horvath (if you can deal with considering him a Kiwi) in the AU NBL but with other teams. I reckon you could get one competitive team and then a battling team.

Import/Henare
Penney/Jones
Cameron/Boucher
Vukona/Frank
Import/Rampton

Tait/Kench
Import/Winitana
Polyblank/Daniel
Import/Hill
Horvath/Pledger?

In the end, the best of the Kiwis have jobs in the league (whichever team they might be with).

[bigdog]

Import / Fitchett
Allen / Charlton / Bartlett / Olsen
Cassidy / D Rampton / Ruscoe / Cartwright
Tompson / Abrams / Mastrovich / Baynes / Reay / Trousdell / Trueman / Grey
Import / MacCloed

A bit scratchy and some not available- may not win many games. But anyone of these players is the equal of Adam darragh / Ben Thompson. Equally if you could take some strategic Australian or other overseas NZ players and a Gordie al la Singapore you could have a team of similar capability.

got to say that NZ bball the weakest I can remember it in many many years. I was kind of dissappointed to see Webster and Abercrombie return home. Would have preferred them to have honed their skills in the States, complete their basketball and academic degrees and then come home. I thought these guys might become the next wave and we (NZ bball and the Breakers) don't seem to be bringing talent through whereas we have seen talent develop overseas (washington State where Abercrombie was is a basketball institution).

Dont get me wrong but the Breakers academy is fantastic, kudos to the management for doing it, but Vukona is the only player that the Breakers can claim to have developed. It is not yet a proven method of development. NZ bball is no better of late - there is a mamoth hole after cameron et al. Zane Meehl seems to have fallen away. Bj Anthony I was hoping for big things but he has packed on the pounds...

the signing of Tanner is a curious one, like Kersten last year... I say this sight unseen but if his talent is such that he is going to play and contribute (eg Oscar, Tim) I dont have a problem with his signing. But if he is a limited bench player, like Kersten, and Darragh and thompson and smith before them, then the Breakers are not doing themselves or NZ bball any favours by signing.

I like others beleive the Breakers need to have a young New Zealand player on the playing roster - the equivilant of the Young Aussie player. It appears to me we dont have this regulation enforced on us.

[nzbreakers]

This is my selection for the 2nd NZ team to compete in the Australian NBL

Before I begin, I excluded all the players who are already signed up for the NZ Breakers or any other NBL teams for the upcoming season or currently playing college basketball in the US (e.g. Alex Pledger, Jeremiah Trueman, etc.). Also excluded Mark Dickel, Sean Marks and Craig Bradshaw.
The players mentioned below are all eligible for the Tall Blacks.

Then, here we go,

Point Guard: Jeremy Kench / Mike Fitchett
Shooting Guard: Brent Charleton / Hayden Allen (or Everard Bartlett)
Shooting Guard: Brendon Polyblank / Leon Henry
Power Forward: IMPORT / Ben Hill (or Christopher Reay)
Centre; IMPORT / Callum Baynes (or Calum MacLeod)

Development Players: BJ Anthony and Tyrone Davey

Must rememeber that the Breakers aren't made up of 8 kiwis and 2 imports but 4 kiwis 1 American 5 Aussies

IMO, it is a little premature to talk about the 2nd NZ-based team in the NBL. But, one thing for sure is that once the team is established, it should be sustainable. We need basketball talent, money, capable management, and local support to be successful in the league. Around the NZ NBL, there is a lot of talks about the level and depth of the Wellington Saints. The following is their roster for 2008 season

Head Coach: Doug Marty (Former NBDL Coach)

Point Guard: Luke Martin / Randall Bishop
Shooting Guard: Lindsay Tait / Troy McLean
Small Forward: Brendon Polyblank / Leon Henry
Power Forward: Ernest Scott* / Arthur Trousdell
Centre: Nick Horvath / Kevin Owens*

Just for my interest, I have also made a team that is made up of Kiwi players, outside the Breakers, in the NBL;

Point Guard: IMPORT / Lindsay Tait (Hawks)
Shooting Guard: IMPORT / Chris Daniel (Slingers)
Small Forward: Mika Vukona (Dragons) / Paora Winitana (36ers)
Power Forward: Pero Cameron (Blaze) / Casey Frank (Blaze)
Centre: Nick Horvath (Dragons) / Tony Rampton (Razorbacks)

Hmm...if they can pick up a couple of solid imports and a decent head coach, then they will be good enough to compete for the last spot in top 8.

[WilloWildWaves]

Great to hear the re signing of Rickert and the signing of Tanner, I hope Rickert last's the whole season this time. The Breakers have put together quite a team, one that I think is capable of going all the way. Cats vs Breakers GF oh yeah :lol:

[Essen]

Wow - one more Australian than a New Zealander? That is such a huge difference! Sack Andrej!!!11!

Informed Australians, could anyone describe Tanner or what would be a reasonable expectation of him?

[Soft Copy]

Import / Fitchett
Allen / Charlton / Bartlett / Olsen
Cassidy / D Rampton / Ruscoe / Cartwright
Tompson / Abrams / Mastrovich / Baynes / Reay / Trousdell / Trueman / Grey
Import / MacCloed

A bit scratchy and some not available-

And at least one not a Kiwi - surely Majstrovich is counted as an Australian as he has represented them at junior level?

[isaac]

Wow - one more Australian than a New Zealander? That is such a huge difference! Sack Andrej!!!11!

Informed Australians, could anyone describe Tanner or what would be a reasonable expectation of him?

Four each of Australians and Kiwis when you consider that Bruton's in there in place of an import.

Don't know anything about Tanner, sorry.

[Poida]

About 6'8", PF/C from Ringwood. Quite mobile, good rebounder and solid post. Haven't seen him play for a while, so that's all I can tell ya!

[Mammon]

Hey Mammon, if it's not past your bedtime yet,


it was, unfortunately. :|


I've got some homework for you:


thanx. ;-)


I know I suggested that you probably shouldn't contribute further to this forum


oh, hell no. :?


but, I realise that I am probably judging you prematurely ansd so would like to give you the opportunity to explain yourself (try and use capitals and punctuate correctly).


hmmm.... OKAY. :D


I'm curious - what exactly would be your roster of eight Kiwi players, allowing for two imports (who are not involved with any current NBL teams except the Breakers) to fill your first team?


FIRSTLY, I WON'T BE USING ANY OF THE FOLLOWING CONTRACTED PLAYERS:

Paora Winitana (Adelaide 36ers, NBL)
Casey Frank (Gold Coast Blaze, NBL)
Pero Cameron (Gold Coast Blaze, NBL)
Chris Daniel (Singapore Slingers, NBL)
Nick Horvath (South Dragons, NBL)
Mika Vukona (South Dragons, NBL)
Tony Rampton (West Sydney Razorbacks, NBL)
Lindsay Tait (Wollongong Hawks, NBL)
Mark Dickel (MUTLU AKU SELCUK UNIVERSITESI KONYA, TBL)
Craig Bradshaw (Efes Pilsen Spor Kulübü, TBL)
Aron Baynes (WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY, NCAA)
Rory Fannon (UTAH VALLEY STATE, NCAA)
Alex Pledger (UNIOF MISSOURI - KANSAS CITY, NCAA)
Sean Marks (PHOENIX SUNS, NBA)


HERE'S MY FIRST TEAM, NORTHERN BREAKERS:

STARTERS:

PG - Jason Crowe*
SG - Kirk Penney
SF - Daryl Cartwright
PF - Link Abrams
C - Rick Rickert*

BENCH:

PG - Zane Meehl OR Jarrod Kenny
SG - Hayden Allen OR Aaron Nowell
SF - Dillon Boucher
PF - Adrian Majstrovich
C - Damon Rampton

DEVELOPMENT PLAYERS:

Thomas Abercrombie
Corey Webster

YOUNG KIWI PLAYER:

Dylan Perfect-Tait


Then, could you give us the eight who would fill the non-imorts spots of the second?


MY SECOND TEAM, CENTRAL MAORIS:

STARTERS:

PG - Paul Henare
SG - Troy McLean
SF - Ben Hill
PF - Ernest Scott*
C - Michael Harrison*

BENCH:

PG - Aidan Daly OR Ben Jeffrey
SG - Everard Bartlett
SF - Charlie Piho (WOW 8) )
PF - Miles Pearce
C - Calum McLeod

DEVELOPMENT PLAYERS:

B.J. Anthony
Tyrone Davey

YOUNG KIWI PLAYER:

Piers Finch


Then (and I accept you said "2 or 3" so I'll allow you some laitude here) could you give us the third eight?


AS OCEANIA'S BEST PERFORMED NATION IN FIBA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, I WILL TRY MY BEST TO ADD A THIRD NBL TEAM.....


HERE U GO, MY THIRD TEAM, SOUTHERN MAMMONS( :twisted: ):

STARTERS:

PG - Mike Fitchett
SG - Phil Jones
SF - Brendon Polyblank
PF - Antoine Tisby*
C - John Whorton*

BENCH:

PG - Jeremy Kench
SG - Nat Connell
SF - Luke Ruscoe OR Gerard Bowden
PF - Arthur Trousdell
C - Christopher Reay

DEVELOPMENT PLAYERS:

Leon Henry
Brandon Brighouse


YOUNG KIWI PLAYER:

Josh Bloxham


Come on mate - let's get some healthy debate started


MY TEAMS MIGHT NOT BE TITLE CONTENDERS, BUT THEY WON'T BE WEAKER THAN THOSE TEAMS THAT MISSED LAST SEASON'S NBL PLAYOFFS EITHER.

[Poida]

LOL @ that whole post.

[isaac]

Love the patriotism and optimism even though (as you said) those teams would get pretty soundly beaten. Might've been on par with a couple of teams from last year, but I couldn't see them beating any sides for this upcoming season.

[Soft Copy]

Mammon, FULL marks for effort mate!!!

Your post, while comprehensive, doesn't support your theory that the Breakers should be made up of Kiwi players only plus imports, rather it simply illustrates that they could.

It, in fact demontrates that it would be totally the wrong move in the short term. The sensible long term strategy is to recruit wisely from either Aus or NZ, get some results, therefore bolstering the kudos of the club, it's supporter base and its standing among existing and up-and-coming players in the NBL. Invest heavily in development (as they are doing) and hang on to the cream of their "developed" players and build a dynasty that way.

The club needs good results in order to survive and this must be their first priority rather than some altruistic desire to grow NZ basketball and give jobs to players who wouldn't be their first choice.

[Stumps]

What does the club need good results for though? Really only to obtain public and corporate support. It's a legitimate consideration to try to guess which is more likely to maximise those two things: the most competitive team, or the most identifiably "Kiwi" team. Singapore faces a similar issue -- are the locals really going to get behind a bunch of transplanted Anglo-Saxons, no matter how good they are at basketball? They need to build a team that the local population is going to be enthused about supporting, and can emotionally identify with.

I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion, and I obviously agree that Mammon carries on like a prize moron on here most of the time, just pointing out that on-court success is not the only factor in a club's survival (as a Kings fan, I know that more acutely than most).

[isaac]

Need a mixture of both and I'd say that's what they've worked towards. They've picked up Ronaldson as a leader, defensive presence and a guy they can run plays through - what Kiwi alternative would there be for that role other than Cameron? (He's contracted to the Gold Coast and is always suggested as being a little difficult to manage and motivate.) I can't think of an available Kiwi that would be the equivalent of Bruton either. Forman you could possibly switch out for Vukona (more defense, less offense) and Rampton could cover for Behrendorff but is he going to do much to raise their appeal with locals? (Missing Bradshaw would have really helped in that regard.)

Stumps, Essen and Co. have always spoken of Aucklanders as being big-time band wagoners when it comes to following sport and creating a winning team might therefore be more important? Teams of the past that included other Kiwis didn't consistently bring in large crowds.

I think Singapore last season was a slightly different case where the Asian players were pinned to the end of the bench. In NZ, the franchise player is a Kiwi and the other three will have significant roles also.

[Soft Copy]

Stumps and Isaac, you're both correct. Stumps, results are not the only thing for sure though, as you rightly point out, they garner public and corporate support. I can tell you this from experience in the fickle Auckland sporting market - if you lose consistently, regardless of whether you have 100% Kiwi content or not, you will garner neither corporate nor public support and eventually die.

My point is, get results first, then build towards a more "Kiwi" product through development of younger players and the ability to lure those few from this country who rise to the top. penney is an example of that calibre and so would Shaun Marks, should he oneday choose to come home for a season or two.

Isaac, Cameron was a failure off the court and incredibly inconsistent on it. Divisive, lazy at times and not the leader the club thought he would be. He'll never be back at the Breakers.

[Essen]

Stumps, Essen and Co. have always spoken of Aucklanders as being big-time band wagoners when it comes to following sport and creating a winning team might therefore be more important? Teams of the past that included other Kiwis didn't consistently bring in large crowds.

To kind of illustrate this point, a recent article in a major paper said that the Warriors needed to stop pinning hopes on young Kiwi's and invest more heavily over the ditch to get results on the field. In terms of the market, having a winning team is an absolute necessity. Kiwi's are absolute bandwagoners. The vast majority have no concept of supporting a team through thick and thin. They only want winners and this even extends to the All Blacks at times. The Singapore example is pushing it, as for us to be at that extent, you'd need 10 African-Americans with 2 Kiwi's as development players.

As for whether the Breakers have got the balance right, I'd probably say so. The star attraction is a Kiwi and he is well supported by others in relevant roles. Here, the loss of Vukona hurts, as he was certainly a fan favourite for his hustle and athleticism.

As long as we have Australians, that are filling roles that for whatever reason are unable to be filled by competent New Zealanders, then I do not have a problem.

I certainly hope Adam Tanner works out well. Ryan Kersten definitely showed he had talent in limited minutes, though I was disappointed in his selection as that position is one in which there are plenty of young New Zealanders. For this position, New Zealand talent is a bit thin. I wonder if Majstrovic was considered, as he has improved greatly since his last stint in the NBL, particularly his jumpshot. I would've really liked to see BJ Anthony, but as mentioned earlier his weight is err.. And the fact that someone needs to tell him to pull up his fucking shorts. He's not playing for Avondale College anymore...

[isaac]

A former team-mate of his said of Majstrovich that, on offense, he was like a chicken with its head cut off. I liked him at the 36ers, but hearing that made me wonder if that was the reason he didn't quite last in the NBL?

Still, Singapore could've done worse than him last year, and he certainly hasn't embarrassed himself in the NZ NBL - his two play-off games were impressive (at least statistically). Would he have had the size to play NBL PF? Or would he be more competing with Boucher for minutes? I remember him as mostly playing SF for the 36ers.

[bigdog]

Yes Aucklanders are band wagoners. But I also know of bball fans who would support the team more if it had more kiwis. I am not one of these. I, like Sir Edmund, support them "because they are there".

I love the signings of CJ, tony R, Oscar and Tim B. All these guys add something that NZ's cannot. They are worthy of being my best friends...

Despite all the above I dont see the point in signing Aussie journeyman or bench warmers. According to the paper Lemanis has said Tanner is number 10 on the roster. He is therefore a completely pointless signing and someone with at least NZ connections, preferably the NZ equivalent of a Young Austalian should have been signed. Dumb move.

[isaac]

He is therefore a completely pointless signing and someone with at least NZ connections, preferably the NZ equivalent of a Young Austalian should have been signed.

IMO, they were - Thomas Abercrombie. Abercrombie is an 87, Tanner is an 84. I wonder if the ages might've been the reason that they were able to pick up both, but perhaps Tanner was ineligible for a development spot? (What's the age cut off? 24, 25, something around there.) Just guessing here.

I'd say that Lemanis views Tanner as more than a bench warmer, perhaps as someone with more potential than other young NZ PF options?

[Voice(s)]

I think the age cut off for a DP is around 22,23 isn't it?

[Mammon]

Love the patriotism and optimism even though (as you said) those teams would get pretty soundly beaten. Might've been on par with a couple of teams from last year, but I couldn't see them beating any sides for this upcoming season.


i really don't understand ur point, there won't be many new players in the coming season, how could u expect the standard of the league to suddenly rise dramatically. if u look at my 3 teams carefully, u should notice that some of my bench players (e.g. Dillon Boucher, Hayden Allen and Jeremy Kench) did perform very well for their respective nbl teams in the past, they were the 6th, 7th or 8th player for their respective teams and there were many weaker players (9th or 10th player) who just got no chance to play in this league.

my teams aren't weak at all, most of my bench players can really play a bit in this league. more importantly, apart from rick rickert, all other imports i used were nznbl imports, if nbl really allows 3 nz teams then no doubt we should recruit some stronger imports for our teams, then we will be fully competitive.

[isaac]

Roughly the same pool of players filling fewer teams in the league means that the standard will rise. Almost every remaining team in the AU NBL has improved this off-season (although Cairns still have work to do and West Sydney will be relying on import signings).

Of the guys you mentioned in Boucher, Allen and Kench, only one currently has a job in the AU NBL for the coming season. The new NZ NBL MVP lasted one season in the AU NBL before his contract was not renewed. Your second team has Hill starting, but he even comes off the bench for Waikato. Sure, NZ could run a second team of just Kiwis in the AU NBL, but so could Adelaide with just guys from the Central ABL - doesn't mean they'd win many games.

Just like you want to see locals playing for the Breakers, fans in SA want to see SA talent in the 36ers. In the year we had Majstrovich, Horvath, etc there was a reasonable count of fans hoping to see more local content in the future. This coming season the mix has improved with Kersten, Hill, Holmes and Schenscher joining Maher. There will still be two imports and non-SA players like Davidson, Winitana and Cooper but they fill vital roles so few are unhappy.

If you want 'purer' national sides, be sure to catch the Tall Blacks vs the Boomers IMO.

[Soft Copy]

I would've really liked to see BJ Anthony, but as mentioned earlier his weight is err.. And the fact that someone needs to tell him to pull up his (Extremely Naughty Word!) shorts. He's not playing for Avondale College anymore...

I'm pretty sure that BJ was given a shot a couple of seasons ago, training with the Breakers in the pre-season but that the coaches at the time (and particularly John Dorge) were less than impressed with his attitude. A couple of no-shows and a general lack of get up and go in terms of his ambition to be a better player was the oil I got from a couple of people in the know. I'm not sure how accurate my info is but, as I say, that was what I heard.

Maybe he should get hold of some game tapes of the way his dad used to play (and sweat!!!) and try and emulate that - he could do worse!

[Essen]

I would've really liked to see BJ Anthony, but as mentioned earlier his weight is err.. And the fact that someone needs to tell him to pull up his (Extremely Naughty Word!) shorts. He's not playing for Avondale College anymore...

I'm pretty sure that BJ was given a shot a couple of seasons ago, training with the Breakers in the pre-season but that the coaches at the time (and particularly John Dorge) were less than impressed with his attitude. A couple of no-shows and a general lack of get up and go in terms of his ambition to be a better player was the oil I got from a couple of people in the know. I'm not sure how accurate my info is but, as I say, that was what I heard.

Maybe he should get hold of some game tapes of the way his dad used to play (and sweat!!!) and try and emulate that - he could do worse!

Sadly, I do not find that surprising. Though at least some positives with Corey Webster, the development player, who looks set to be the youngest Tall Black player in over a decade - link here (http://www.basketball.org.nz/news/young-blood/).

[Haggard Smith]

Mod deletion. Vandalism.

[scooterrich]

Thanks guys. Who was that complete idiot?

[Skindog the Hawk]

Thanks guys. Who was that complete idiot?
No idea...but he's been hit pretty hard with the banning stick, so I guess he's not coming back tonight. :lol: 8)

[Mammon]

Roughly the same pool of players filling fewer teams in the league means that the standard will rise. Almost every remaining team in the AU NBL has improved this off-season (although Cairns still have work to do and West Sydney will be relying on import signings).


the bullets aren't dead yet and most of those ex-Kings will play abroad next season cos most teams here got no spots left 4 them.


Of the guys you mentioned in Boucher, Allen and Kench, only one currently has a job in the AU NBL for the coming season.


but all 3 of them started for their respective nbl teams on a few occasions as well. the reality is that oz teams won't sign kiwi talent unless they have to, i won't name them in my teams if they aren't good enough.

[Essen]

Of the guys you mentioned in Boucher, Allen and Kench, only one currently has a job in the AU NBL for the coming season.


but all 3 of them started for their respective nbl teams on a few occasions as well. the reality is that oz teams won't sign kiwi talent unless they have to, i won't name them in my teams if they aren't good enough.

The Wildcats had to sign Homik?

I don't think Allen has started in the ANBL, though I'm open to correction. Surprised that Kench hasn't been picked up yet, played some handy minutes at the Gong and looked to have improved big time in this years NZ NBL.

And I'm quite sure that most Oz teams would be open to signing someone like Phill Jones, based on his talent, regardless of whether he's Kiwi or not and definitely not just because they have to.

Though I disagree somewhat with isaac re: Crowe. The guy does deserve another shot in the league.

[Mammon]

The Wildcats had to sign Homik?


yes, the cats need a bench big to cover rogers, but homik was overrated and as a result, rogers ended up playing nearly 40mpg.


I don't think Allen has started in the ANBL, though I'm open to correction. Surprised that Kench hasn't been picked up yet, played some handy minutes at the Gong and looked to have improved big time in this years NZ NBL.


allen started something like 10 games for the slingers last season, did score something like 20pts against the bullets etc.

[Da Houndawg #55]

After Grizzard, Helms and Knight I'd have said Allen would have been their next best... big step down though. BIIIIG step.

[isaac]

Over Janev and Cameron? Those two did OK for themselves.

[Da Houndawg #55]

Games I saw Allen looked more solid.

Cameron just looked like a big stiff to me, Janev not much better.

[Mammon]

i'd say janev is okay, cameron is just a bigger version of homik really. 8)

[Soft Copy]

I guess this story (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=21&objectid=10518951) explains why the Breakers have chosen to only sign one import. If they knew that Kirk was going to try and get a roster spot in the NBA, they would need the import spot to sign a worthy replacement, given the fact that available quality home-grown shooting guards are pretty thin on the ground at this stage of the pre-season.

[Soft Copy]

Slightly off-topic I know (but I'll use Penney's presence in the Tall Blacks as my excuse).

They beat Lebanon 84-71 in Canada this morning NZ time.

Penney: 17 points (5/13, 3/6 3s) & 2 rebounds
Bradshaw: 18 (7/11, 2/2) & 5
Tait: 13 (6/8, 1/3) & 1; 2 assist , 8 turnovers!
Vukona: 5 (2/3, 1/1) & 2
Cameron: 4 (1/5, 0/3) & 3

Pero took only two shots inside the three point line in over 25 minutes of game-time. Hhhmmm...

[isaac]

The New Zealand Breakers' were soundly beaten by the Perth Wildcats in the second game of the pre-season series last night. The 81-102 loss was a blow after the Breakers beat the Wildcats 101-92 in Geraldton, Western Australia, on Wednesday.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4673509a1823.html

Scorers from the first game:
NZ Breakers 101 (Kirk Penney 29, Phill Jones 20, Rick Rickert 16, Oscar Forman 14, Paul Henare 11)
Perth Wildcats 92 (Isaih Victor 19, Darnell Hinson 15).

Not sure on the second.

[Dunkin' Dan]

Haven't seen a score from the second either, but Oscar was certainly launching from all over the place. I'm guessing he enjoys playing against us more than most teams... we just let him hang out in the corners by himself for as long as he wants.

[isaac]

But was he making any of them?

[Dunkin' Dan]

Depends how literal you are with the definition of "any" :wink:
He went alright from my recollection, but then the hits always stick in my mind better than the misses.
The main impression he made on me was how beefcake he looked. Not that he has bulked up or anything, but he was standing near Victor a fair bit.

[Da Houndawg #55]

Haven't seen a score from the second either, but Oscar was certainly launching from all over the place. I'm guessing he enjoys playing against us more than most teams... we just let him hang out in the corners by himself for as long as he wants.
Darren Ng has historically as well...

If you have good ball movement and wings who can stick the open looks wings look good against Perth. Just like if you have a guy who can pass well from penetration and a wing who can stick the three the wings start looking good against us last year as well.

[isaac]

Perth got up in game three. I think Henare got injured and, without CJ, NZ were forced to run Webster, Jones and Boucher at the point. Then foul trouble became an issue, Rono picked up three techs(!) and 3-4 Breakers fouled out? Wildcats are going to be tough this year.

[moonshadow]

Rono picked up three techs(!)

in a preseason game? any idea what they were for?

[isaac]

No, not sure. Refs might've been a bit average if he fired up like that?

[Stumps]

Depends how literal you are with the definition of "any" :wink:
He went alright from my recollection, but then the hits always stick in my mind better than the misses.
The main impression he made on me was how beefcake he looked. Not that he has bulked up or anything, but he was standing near Victor a fair bit.
Which "beefcake" was it?

http://coolpark.free.fr/South%20Park/Images/Cartman/beefcake02.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/alesk76/sp/cartman/carbcake.gif

[isaac]

Apparently NZ just beat the Tigers in Melbourne. Anyone know more?

Edit: Thanks to Singy in the Tigers thread:

Kick starting this week, the Tigers NBL team took on the New Zealand Breakers today (Monday 1st September) in an informal 'scratch match' at the Sandringham King Club.

David Barlow top-scored for the Tigers with 22 points, Anstey scored 17 and Crosswell added 15, along with Mackinnon and Hoare scoring 9 points apiece.

For the Breakers, CJ Bruton scored 29 points, followed by Kirk Penney with 21. The Breakers held on in the tight match to win 96-92.

Nice start from CJ.

[Soft Copy]

A basic match report here. (http://www.nzbreakers.co.nz/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=75842)

[Nerf Herder]

has anyone heard anything on Tanner lately? I'm trying to find him in match reports, but nothing... I'd have thought he'd at least be featuring in the reports SOME way, but since no box scores, I can't really see if he's been bench warming or not around?

cheers...

[isaac]

Has been in a few of the boxscores. Seems to be playing a handful of minutes here and there.

[meg]

Nice story here (http://news.smh.com.au/sport/new-zealands-breakers-on-the-defence-20080910-4dee.html) about the Breakers' preparations for their season opener next week against Wollongong. Pity the SYDNEY Morning Herald didn't even mention the one Sydney team's opener against last year's flag holders... :?

[gangsta boo]

It is an AAP article though

[Mammon]

http://www.nzbreakers.co.nz/site/_content/profile/00020945_Image.gif


didn't know Thomas Abercrombie is a good volleyball player too. :P


Link (http://www.nzbreakers.co.nz/default.aspx?s=playerprofile&id=926&team=breakers)