The Official Sydney Kings 08/09 Thread

[Lemon Custard]

So.. According to the Daily Telegraph, Mike W will be meeting with Brian and the players on Monday or Tuesday to discuss their availability and willingness to play next season. And he's hopefully going to make a good offer.

I, for one, hope the team looks a lot like this...

BJ Carter
Cam Tovey
Luke Kendall
Mark Worthington
Jason Smith
Russell Hinder
Isiah Victor
Dontaye Draper
Ian Crosswhite
Glen Saville

[Poida]

In the pre-game last night, Worthington said something like, "This is the last time the group will be together". Make of it what you will.

[Mighty Dunks]

The Daily Telegraph article about Mike W talking to Goorj sounds positive, but at the same time it depends on what everyone's motivations for wanting to leave really are. If it is purely a financial stability thing then you'd think if Wrubleski can assure them he's got it under control they'll hang around. However if the reasons for wanting out are something different and the financial debacle is just a convenient way to get out then the Kings could have a struggle on their hands.

[Lemon Custard]

In the pre-game last night, Worthington said something like, "This is the last time the group will be together". Make of it what you will.

So did Jason, and so did Brian. But it doesn't follow that I can't hope like crazy the boys stay together. After talking to them last night about how close they are, and what amazing friends they have all become, I don't want to see them go elsewhere.

[Poida]

Of course you don't want to see any of them go elsewhere. But teams like the Dragons need [F(r)anny]the "Prodigal Son" in Jason Smith to come home[/F(r)anny] :lol:

[gangsta boo]

On the other side of things theres always player turnover every season anyway...but right now I'm shattered after last night. Not so much for the loss but what it could all mean - and thats a tragedy

[Cussy]

Cam Tovey should be extremely pissed off right about now. He was given little to no opportunites to play in the GF series. For whatever reason, Goorj decided to avoid using his amazing pool of depth, despite the injuries to key players, and that meant Tovey spent plenty of minutes on the pine. Goorj obviously doesn't have the faith in him that he used to - if I were him, I'd be looking for a new club.

[Stanley]

Cam Tovey should be extremely pissed off right about now. He was given little to no opportunites to play in the GF series. For whatever reason, Goorj decided to avoid using his amazing pool of depth, despite the injuries to key players, and that meant Tovey spent plenty of minutes on the pine. Goorj obviously doesn't have the faith in him that he used to - if I were him, I'd be looking for a new club.

There's an open SF spot about 60mins south of his current abode.

[Lemon Custard]

Cam's under contract though. Although they don't often mean much in this league.

[phill]

On the other side of things theres always player turnover every season anyway...but right now I'm shattered after last night. Not so much for the loss but what it could all mean - and thats a tragedy

I concure totally with your comments. The loss is shattering for all the players as a group. To go through a season where they were not paid on time, took a pay cut to fit in another import and played their arses off every game has to be respected. It is difficult to argue that they were'nt the best "team" in the NBL this season. When BG came to the Kings he gave the long standing Kings fans everything we could have asked for. A winning team, championships, heart and class. To potentially lose this "culture" because of the current owners disrepect of the franchise and the coach and players is beyond words. The future of Kings franchise as it stands is not dependant on who the owners will be. A sucessful future will be dependant on whether BG is the Kings coach or not. He brings automatic on court success, Full Stop! Imagine the interest in the Kings in Sydney if they where to miss the playoffs? Last night's loss was shattering for the fans, but imagine how bad the players must be feeling atm. They are at risk at losing their mateship and coach. A win last night would not have changed anything but it would have given them a deserved reward for the crap that they have had to deal with this season.

[curious]

Spoke to Mike W myself last night and some of the people that will be involved in the new ownership group.
Whilst you can never be sure, things are looking good. Even heard today that they have the new CEO picked out. A very well credentialled person, eminantly suitable for the job. Lets hopoe it happens soon.

[phill]

Spoke to Mike W myself last night and some of the people that will be involved in the new ownership group.
Whilst you can never be sure, things are looking good. Even heard today that they have the new CEO picked out. A very well credentialled person, eminantly suitable for the job. Lets hopoe it happens soon.

I hope your right Curious. Gees I hope so. This whole thing was started with Mike W and should be sorted out by Mike W. His pasion for the game is unquestionable. He sucked me in 16 years ago and I have never walked away from the Kings since. If your reading Mike. The time is now!

[Mighty Dunks]

Does anyone think that last night's result will make it more likely that the team hangs around for another year? A win last night would have capped off an amazing season perfectly for them and they could happily have headed off their seperate ways. The loss however, may leave them with a sense of unfinished business. This team went through so much together and justifiably felt they probably deserved a championship. Falling over at the last hurdle may provide some incentive to hang around (providing, of course, the other financial factors are taken care of).

[phill]

Mighty Dunks, No doubt that this season the ownership issues has brought them incredibly close. However it may also be that they are totally wasted mentally and need a change for their own sanity. Time will tell.

[ritch]

Just got back from the game......
Whatever happens now, you gotta say that you have to be proud of what this group has done this year. I am. Obvious, I know but fLick it. As a group of fans we owe it to the club to support them next season no matter who is at the helm or on the roster. I'd hate to see even less interest in the regluar season due to a change of coach (hopefully that won't happen). Fact is that certain players will go, which sucks, (I'd keep the lot of them) but we are still there and we have no one but ourselves to blame if we cannot contribute to the new culture of the Kings and basketball in Sydney next season.

ps. who's going to the city hotel tomorrow?

[phill]

Ritch, I know you have supported the Kings for a while. I will also continue to support the club no matter what. But if BG goes I don't wont to go back to the old days of watching under performing and heartless Kings teams of the mid to late 90's.

[ritch]

Agreed phil, but nothing pisses me off more when you read horseshit from certain posters about our lack of fans. WE ARE HERE and last night proved it. I don't know but is there another team that can fill a 10,000 stadium? We did last night, we used to and the fans need to find their passion in the sport to do it again.

ps. Anstey is a crying skeletal poser. (re. head in hands on centrestage, surrounded by photograghers.)

[Cussy]

You don't have fans. You average 3500 a game. Don't for a second think that any other team wouldn't get that many fans to a GF Game 5, providing they had the venue to do so.

[phill]

That crowd of 10k was the original reason why I loved going to watch the Kings. What a buzz. Great night for basketball. I hope it will bring more fanatics to the game. BTW I posted some time ago about how much the Asians love the game. You would have to be Blind Freddy not to notice how many were there last night. FFS Kings go and market to these people!

[Da Houndawg #55]

Agreed phil, but nothing pisses me off more when you read horseshit from certain posters about our lack of fans. WE ARE HERE and last night proved it. I don't know but is there another team that can fill a 10,000 stadium? We did last night, we used to and the fans need to find their passion in the sport to do it again.

When that last sentence happens, that first one will stop...

As I said before, Sydney HAS fans... They'd have to, the city's fucking huge. The problem is fans haven't been marketed to well enough in terms of the season compared to individual games... They rely a lot on people picking and going to individual games than being there for the whole season.

The Kings used to play to sell outs on the regular when they were the consumate underacheivers, they still can sell out (and in a hurry too) if the game is big enough. For a Game 5 Grand Final... you won't find a game that people would rather see.

[Da Houndawg #55]

You don't have fans. You average 3500 a game. Don't for a second think that any other team wouldn't get that many fans to a GF Game 5, providing they had the venue to do so.
Agreed.

We have only a million here and I wouldn't be too surprised if we could sell out a 10,500+ venue for a game 5 if we had the venue.

But again... the 36ers are actually known in Adelaide.

[ctsm23]

Agreed phil, but nothing pisses me off more when you read horseshit from certain posters about our lack of fans. WE ARE HERE and last night proved it. I don't know but is there another team that can fill a 10,000 stadium? We did last night, we used to and the fans need to find their passion in the sport to do it again.



Bullets Game 1 and 3 vs Tigers last year

7,291 02/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL
7,539 07/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL


Sydney Game 1 and 3
3,208 05/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers
6,009 09/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers

I'd say Brisbane would of had it gone to 5

[phill]

Agreed phil, but nothing pisses me off more when you read horseshit from certain posters about our lack of fans. WE ARE HERE and last night proved it. I don't know but is there another team that can fill a 10,000 stadium? We did last night, we used to and the fans need to find their passion in the sport to do it again.



Bullets Game 1 and 3 vs Tigers last year

7,291 02/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL
7,539 07/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL


Sydney Game 1 and 3
3,208 05/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers
6,009 09/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers

I'd say Brisbane would of had it gone to 5

Don't think so because Game 3 was when the Bullets were leading 2-1. So therefore it was every bullets fans expectation that this could be the last game. So a huge crowd was expected.

[Cussy]

Agreed phil, but nothing pisses me off more when you read horseshit from certain posters about our lack of fans. WE ARE HERE and last night proved it. I don't know but is there another team that can fill a 10,000 stadium? We did last night, we used to and the fans need to find their passion in the sport to do it again.



Bullets Game 1 and 3 vs Tigers last year

7,291 02/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL
7,539 07/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL


Sydney Game 1 and 3
3,208 05/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers
6,009 09/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers

I'd say Brisbane would of had it gone to 5

Don't think so because Game 3 was when the Bullets were leading 2-1. So therefore it was every bullets fans expectation that this could be the last game. So a huge crowd was expected.
So how do you explain the 7300 for game 1?

[Cracker]

Also how could we be 2-1 up in game three?

[Cussy]

I think he means those extra 200 people turned up knowing that Brisbane would win game 3, and figured that they wouldn't see them again for the season, which is possibly the most illogical suggestion ever.

[phill]

Agreed phil, but nothing pisses me off more when you read horseshit from certain posters about our lack of fans. WE ARE HERE and last night proved it. I don't know but is there another team that can fill a 10,000 stadium? We did last night, we used to and the fans need to find their passion in the sport to do it again.



Bullets Game 1 and 3 vs Tigers last year

7,291 02/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL
7,539 07/03/07 Basketball NBL Grand Final: BRI v MEL


Sydney Game 1 and 3
3,208 05/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers
6,009 09/03/08 Basketball NBL GF: Kings v Tigers

I'd say Brisbane would of had it gone to 5

Don't think so because Game 3 was when the Bullets were leading 2-1. So therefore it was every bullets fans expectation that this could be the last game. So a huge crowd was expected.
So how do you explain the 7300 for game 1?

I don't want to make a big deal out of it. But that was a Friday. Kings game 1 was a Weds.

[phill]

I think he means those extra 200 people turned up knowing that Brisbane would win game 3, and figured that they wouldn't see them again for the season, which is possibly the most illogical suggestion ever.

Here's the logic
1. Kings Game 1 GF WEDS 3,209
2. Kings Game 3 GF SUN 6,009 (Non Decider)
3. Kings Game 5 GF FRI 10,000+ (Decider)

See how the logic works here. You get a bigger crowd when it's a possible deciding game and/or it's on the weekend.

[Ole]

Potenital people. It is all about potential. 3 million people. Good marketing. One cool sport. Stuff you all, we live in one cool city.

10,000 for a home game. End of Story.

Bring it on Mike. I am a new fan and do or die I will be back next season for my season pass and I AM BRINGING FRIENDS!!!

(Brian dont go!!!)

[Daevo]

It's not just about the potential market in terms of fans to attend games. Box office sales are almost inconsequential in most professional sports compared with corporate sponsorship which is where the real $$$ are. For that reason alone, the NBL needs to be seen to be successful in Sydney in order to grow or even survive. If it isn't promoted then not only will Sydney fans stay away in droves but the corporate dollars of Sydney based business will too. Large business will think twice about spending money on a 'national' league if it won't get their logo in front of the biggest market in the country.

[stellation]

Large business will think twice about spending money on a 'national' league if it won't get their logo in front of the biggest market in the country.
Absolutely, anyone who thinks otherwise is painfully naive.

[fan since the old snakepit]

Cam Tovey should be extremely pissed off right about now. He was given little to no opportunites to play in the GF series. For whatever reason, Goorj decided to avoid using his amazing pool of depth, despite the injuries to key players, and that meant Tovey spent plenty of minutes on the pine. Goorj obviously doesn't have the faith in him that he used to - if I were him, I'd be looking for a new club.

There's an open SF spot about 60mins south of his current abode.

We dont need another poor shooting 3 man. We just got rid of one. His three point percentage is almost as poor as Benny C. I dont think that Tovey has the all round game to be anything other than a reliable backup. He is primarily a slasher and once you take that away has little to offer.

[boz_novocastrian]

with mike w at least u know he will be willing to spend money to market the game unlike some of the owners since he sold the team. Like in Parramatta on corner of pitt street and argyle street. There was always a billboard there advertising the kings home games.

[KRINT]

Noticed alot of old school Kings gear being worn in the crowd in Gm 5(even a old D- Train warm up!) seem like fans from the old days?
Whats happend to these fans?,maybe the kings should focus on getting them back to more games during the regular season?

[DoubleA]

Noticed alot of old school Kings gear being worn in the crowd in Gm 5(even a old D- Train warm up!) seem like fans from the old days?
Whats happend to these fans?,maybe the kings should focus on getting them back to more games during the regular season?

I was surprised there wasnt a collection of dust over the SEC there were that many old items being worn out.

From Trimmingham jerseys to infamous black Kings Heal jersey, they were all there.

[Stumps]

Noticed alot of old school Kings gear being worn in the crowd in Gm 5(even a old D- Train warm up!) seem like fans from the old days?
No, that was me! :lol:

[KRINT]

LOL, nice stuff!!!

[boz_novocastrian]

stumps always wear that jersey to nearly every game.

when i do goto kings games i wear the old school white jersey or the trendwest one but prefer wearing the original jersey

[Stumps]

stumps always wear that jersey to nearly every game.
No, only big playoff games.

[kings89]

I still have a signed Mario Donaldson singlet, sadly...it appears to have gotten smaller! :wink: :lol:

Here in the UK, the RFU just completed a nationwide campaign to "re-recruit" lost players to the sport. Perhaps that's what the Kings should do? Focus on all those fans from the D-Train/Trimmingham days...

[An5w3r]

stumps always wear that jersey to nearly every game.

when i do goto kings games i wear the old school white jersey or the trendwest one but prefer wearing the original jersey

boz, were you sitting right in front of me at the game? I remember you saying you got tickets in front of me, and there was a guy with a camera recording the game and turned to hi-five me about 4 times...

Don't want to talk about the game any more than that though thanks... I'm still struggling to deal with Collingwood beating the Swans last season.. I need more time for this (much more)..

[blueberry]

Noticed alot of old school Kings gear being worn in the crowd in Gm 5(even a old D- Train warm up!) seem like fans from the old days?
Whats happend to these fans?,maybe the kings should focus on getting them back to more games during the regular season?

I still wear some of my old gear - its in good condition.

I did not buy any gear with the Firepower logo on it as I refused to support a company that sponsored the bunnies in the NRL.

I also preferred some of the older gear as the shades of purple were nicer.

I wore my home singlet game 1 & away singlet game 2.

[Mr_Black]

Anyone got the inside word? Is Goorj and Smith to the Dragons a done deal?

[Earnie Shavers]

It's not a 'done deal' formally - Goorjian is talking to Wrublewski today, the Kings have one last chance via what will possibly be their new ownership group. $300K a year x 3 years is what the Dragons are offering as per the Herald Sun. I don't know if that would be anything way over and above what he was on at the Kings, and matching/raising it absolutely wouldn't or shouldn't be a problem for the new group at all, especially considering that their involvement hinges on him, so they're definitely aware of his true value to the business.

Point being - it won't be about money. Security, management choices, and probably even a commitment to give more in promoting and supporting the team will be where it is. Make no mistake: Goorjian walks, Kings are f***ed. Proper f***ed. Goorjian stays, it's a great sign that things are finally on track off court there as well. For Kings fans, this week is way bigger than last week.

[lawsy82]

my gut feeling is he will stay, as he loves living in sydney, and his wife does have a nice job in kings front office. I think the grand final crowd, and the interest in the kings was high that week, BG craves more of that

[Lethal Vertical]

My gut feeling is that Goorjian loves the derby atmosphere at Melbourne.

They sold out the Ent Cent twice in 5 years, but if he comes here he'll get a derby with 8,000+ twice next season, plus more of the huge matches if he makes the playoffs. He'll get a club which is hell bent on promotion and would surely get the big crowds rolling in if he holds up his end of the bargain and builds a successful team. Far more than he got in Sydney!

[Mr_Black]

my gut feeling is he will stay, as he loves living in sydney, and his wife does have a nice job in kings front office. I think the grand final crowd, and the interest in the kings was high that week, BG craves more of that

I have a feeling he is headed South.
I think the Drags will up the offer if required to say 350k x 3y if the Kings match it.
We know Cowan loves promoting his team any chance he gets, and expense does not seem to even come into question.
Furthermore, Im sure amongst his plethora of companies he could easily find Goorj's wife a high paying job.
Also, lets face it, the guy has missed trying to stick it up the Tigers with another Melbourne based team :wink:

[Poida]

Lawsy, with all due respect mate.......you really do have your head buried firmly in the sand. BG loves Melbourne (Not saying more than Sydney, just that its not really a factor for staying or going), no one has a nice job in the Kings front office, 1 game where the bandwagoners come out of the woodworks ain't gonna be on his mind. If that is the case, he can coach in front of consistently bigger crowds with the Dragons, as well as the huge Melbourne Derby, 3 times a year against his mate Westover.

You have to look a little deeper. The Kings seem to be unstable atm. Why stay if there is no stability, when he has a challenge and the right resources at his disposal in Melbourne??

Who knows what he's thinking, but I'm sure we'll probably know his intentions this week.

[lawsy82]

But if big mike W jumps on board, gives him a good solid business plan, and if kings can retain 80% of their current roster, i really feel 5k crowds as an average is not un-realistic. If he does go to the dragosn, that will be one hell of a challenge, as their current roster stinks

[X Files]

I thought that BG still has 1 year left on his contract.

I know that contracts these days don't mean much, but I think he will stay and honour his contract.

[MLS]

A lot of people are saying BG might stay at Sydney because of Mike W, but I'm hoping that he is also appreciative of Cowan and Geminder. Remember that when the Titan's were on the verge of collapse, Cowan and (I think) Geminder tried to save the club then, and would have kept BG and the Titans. Instead, the league made the horrible mistake of going with Fiddes.

C'mon Goorj, time to come home.

[Stumps]

Earnie is dead right. If Goorj goes, the Kings are more fucked than they have ever been. Shut-the-whole-thing-down-and-give-up level of rootedness.

There was a time when basketball was cool and there was a fan base that wanted razzle dazzle and style over substance, imports that could dunk and do Coke commercials ahead of teams that won rings. All those fans are gone now, and we're left with fans that love Goorj and love the guys that did is proud this season.

How many of those fans will stick around if Goorj and all the boys go? Not many. It won't be the Kings anymore. There's no reason to stay loyal when there's zero continuity.

Can the NBL survive this? The death of its highest profile franchise leaving no viable presence in the city's biggest market at the same time the league is looking for new major sponsors? The return of the Bullets and Sixers to their precarious pre-Eddie situations? Without a revival, or at very least a retention of status quo, in these major cities, the league will die, no question.

I understand as much as anybody why Goorjian would be so pissed off as to want to put the current Kings situation completely behind him, but it is an absolute tragedy if the current and potential owners of the team cannot stop farting about and protect their fading asset from collapsing by doing whatever it frigging takes to keep the man who now IS Kings basketball in Sydney. Johnston is making e big mistake if he thinks that plaing hardball over the sale is going to see him better off in the long run. Without Goorj, the franchise is literally worthless.

Finally, can anybody explain to me how Cowan is able to make formal offers to a coach who still has a year on his contract? Has it been officially terminated yet? I wonder if we'd see no action from the league if it was Chris Anstey being seduced out of a current contract.

[Da Houndawg #55]

Lawsy, with all due respect mate.......you really do have your head buried firmly in the sand. BG loves Melbourne (Not saying more than Sydney, just that its not really a factor for staying or going), no one has a nice job in the Kings front office, 1 game where the bandwagoners come out of the woodworks ain't gonna be on his mind. If that is the case, he can coach in front of consistently bigger crowds with the Dragons, as well as the huge Melbourne Derby, 3 times a year against his mate Westover.

You have to look a little deeper. The Kings seem to be unstable atm. Why stay if there is no stability, when he has a challenge and the right resources at his disposal in Melbourne??

Who knows what he's thinking, but I'm sure we'll probably know his intentions this week.
Not saying that those aren't valid reasons for him to leave, but I would imagine that if the Kings board via Wrublewsi offer him 1.) Adequate money (which doesn't even necessarily mean as much as he's been receiving to date) and 2.) The funding required to bring back some key members of the team who may be going to free agency then I could definitely see some reasons for him to stay in Sydney (where he has a roster which he's pretty much hand-picked and he's comfortable with).

That being said, I would imagine if he does go it'll be a huge loss for the Kings.

1) I would imagine Goorj returning would be a HUGE requirement for the group of people financing the Kings.
2.) Expect people to flood out, first a few guys who Goorj would pick out himself to go with him to thhe Dragons, second players filing out for bigger coin elsewhere.
3) Marketing would be the only thing which could then possibly save the team... and at present its been abysmal.

This week is DEFINITELY more important than last week from the point of view of the Kings.

It'd also be interesting to know whether Wortho has decided what he's going to do next year, AND whether he's told anyone, AND whether Goorj knows, AND how Goorj would respond if Wortho decides to give the European circuit a crack...

[X Files]

It'd also be interesting to know whether Wortho has decided what he's going to do next year, AND whether he's told anyone, AND whether Goorj knows, AND how Goorj would respond if Wortho decides to give the European circuit a crack...

I would think Wortho would be waiting to see what BG does before he decides anything. If BG stays, then there is a fair chance that Wortho may stay.

[Da Houndawg #55]

It'd also be interesting to know whether Wortho has decided what he's going to do next year, AND whether he's told anyone, AND whether Goorj knows, AND how Goorj would respond if Wortho decides to give the European circuit a crack...

I would think Wortho would be waiting to see what BG does before he decides anything. If BG stays, then there is a fair chance that Wortho may stay.
So you think Wortho's entire decision making process hinges on whether Brian Goorjian returns?

Personally, I think he'd be a fool to have not been considering it at times this season. And I'd have to say he'd have to be a more quiet and controlled man than I if he were to have not told ANYBODY about his thoughts on the matter... and from watching him on the court I just can't believe that... :wink:

[curious]

Finally, can anybody explain to me how Cowan is able to make formal offers to a coach who still has a year on his contract? Has it been officially terminated yet? I wonder if we'd see no action from the league if it was Chris Anstey being seduced out of a current contract.
I don't think there are any rules in regard to poaching coaches.
May be wrong on that one.

[X Files]

So you think Wortho's entire decision making process hinges on whether Brian Goorjian returns?

Not at all, but it could influence his decision to go or stay.

There could also be that feeling of unfinished business. BG, Wortho etc would feel that they lost the GF rathert han the Tigers winning it. They may want another chance with basically the same squad of players to win it next year.

[LegoSHAQ]

Finally, can anybody explain to me how Cowan is able to make formal offers to a coach who still has a year on his contract? Has it been officially terminated yet? I wonder if we'd see no action from the league if it was Chris Anstey being seduced out of a current contract.
I don't think there are any rules in reagrd to paoching coaches.
May be wrong on that one.
Also with the goings on at the Kings with payments being late etc.. it sounds like there may have already been breaches in contracts so that makes them void.. and then dpenending on the contract it may also be void if the Kings come under new ownership..

[Stumps]

Also with the goings on at the Kings with payments being late etc.. it sounds like there may have already been breaches in contracts so that makes them void..
A breach does not automatically make a contract void. Most contracts have provisions covering how breaches are to be treated, and when and how a breach can be used as an excuse for terminating the contract.

[havrilla the gorilla]

I don't think it is a matter of Goorj staying at Sydney because everything gets sorted and everything is supposedly fine. If the club remains viable and Goorjian stays, they will not be as far in the black as what you might think. It will be a constant battle like this season scraping a profit and getting payments made on time, and I don't think Brian could put himself through it again. It has clearly taken a toll on the man(does anybody remember the time they hooked up a HR monitor to him during a game? The thing nearly blew up!) who is highly stressed anyway at the best of times. I think his experiences this season has left a bitter taste and he is looking for a fresh start.

Other big reason - family. Brian's daughter is in Melbourne. Enough said there. Brian Goorjian to coach South next season.

As far as Sydney dying if Goorj goes, I don't buy that. People couldn't be bothered rocking up for the last four years when they were dominating, and it was great for the Kings this year to finally pull a crowd when game 5 sold out. However, if they can resemble some sort of squad and work hard to promote the game they can keep the buzz alive. There is no reason why it can't pick up again with or without Goorj. I will admit it would be better with Goorj there, but with Mike W back and a few other things starting to get going there, they can be ok. It will take time and a lot of hard work.

Like Brisbane(if it survives) I am looking forward to the club actually promoting itself and the game and trying to build something from the ground up. No more free tickets for ABC staff to fill the stadium so we can see who is really turning out. Even if it is 750 people, that is a start. From there promote the game, school clinics, try to get more media coverage and let people know that the NBL is still around and know that we are there. We actually have to sing for our supper instead of relying on a wealthy owner.

I hope both Sydney and Brisbane can survive and move forward.
Time will tell.....

[phill]

The way I see it the Kings have 3 options.
Option A
Mike buys the Kings, convinces Brian to stay, keeps most of team, Mike goes back to grass roots to promote game in schools,etc. Promotes game to corporates, Kings draw an average 5,000 crowd in first year.

Option B
Brian decides to part ways, Mike bails out, new owner down sizes to smaller venue, Kings win half their games, Kings draw an average crowd 2,500. Kings base their organisation around the Wilcats model.

Option C
No one interested in the Kings. Kings finished. Fox pulls out. Ladies and Gentleman basketball becomes 3rd Tier sport in the country.

[Stumps]

As far as Sydney dying if Goorj goes, I don't buy that. People couldn't be bothered rocking up for the last four years when they were dominating
Exactly. Wait to see what happens when they suck dogs' balls. Everybody who can tolerate hard-working no-talent guys grinding out honourable losses already switched to the Razorbacks years ago, and the guys who've come to expect the Goorj Factor won't bother coming back.

The Kings could lose and still keep fans before Goorj, but post Goorj it won't happen. If a virgin goes without sex for years, he doesn't mind that much because he doesn't know what he's missing out and the thrill of knowing one day he might have sex can keep him interested. However, after a guy has spent the last six years continually nailing the hottest model on the planet, he's going to be a lot more depressed about going without after she dumps him, because he knows what he's missing out on.

If Goorjian leaves, and all the boys leave with him, the Kings are dead. There's nothing connecting whatever trots out in a purple singlet next season to the team that the few remaining die-hards are currently loyally supporting. It might just be enough to push me off to Sydney FC, and I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in giving the team the flick.

[showtime]

Apparently the big day is tomorrow......

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 191793.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/17/2191793.htm)

[phill]

Stumps, the only die hards that will continue to suuport the Kings if BG goes are buffheads like me who have been supporting the team for god knows how long. There has been alot of water pass under the bridge over the last 16 years. Not just Kings stuff, life stuff and the Kings have been inter woven in that. When that happens to the die hards it'ts very difficult to cut and run. Letting go is not easy.

[havrilla the gorilla]

As far as Sydney dying if Goorj goes, I don't buy that. People couldn't be bothered rocking up for the last four years when they were dominating
Exactly. Wait to see what happens when they suck dogs' balls. Everybody who can tolerate hard-working no-talent guys grinding out honourable losses already switched to the Razorbacks years ago, and the guys who've come to expect the Goorj Factor won't bother coming back.

The Kings could lose and still keep fans before Goorj, but post Goorj it won't happen. If a virgin goes without sex for years, he doesn't mind that much because he doesn't know what he's missing out and the thrill of knowing one day he might have sex can keep him interested. However, after a guy has spent the last six years continually nailing the hottest model on the planet, he's going to be a lot more depressed about going without after she dumps him, because he knows what he's missing out on.

If Goorjian leaves, and all the boys leave with him, the Kings are dead. There's nothing connecting whatever trots out in a purple singlet next season to the team that the few remaining die-hards are currently loyally supporting. It might just be enough to push me off to Sydney FC, and I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in giving the team the flick.


Great attitude mate. The Kings need fans like you and you want to jump on the A-League band wagon. The only thing that has piqued people's interests there is the games international standing. Unfortunately we don't have that, the Boomers are on an even keel. If Rugby wasn't feeding off the international fundage, super 14 would be screwed, but thats another story.

I can remember when the Kings were huge, and there was no Goorj then. Yes it was a different world back then, and we are up against it. But giving in is no solution. Do you throw the baby out with the bath water? No you start again. I know you like analogies so what you are basically saying is if you have a sick child, don't try to nurse it back to health just euthenise it and have a new baby.

You may be a realist and the odds are quite possibly in your favour. But if everybody had your attitude the game will die, and I know there are people who don't want that to happen and will keep fighting. Game 5 showed there is hope.

If a virgin goes without sex for years, he doesn't mind that much because he doesn't know what he's missing out and the thrill of knowing one day he might have sex can keep him interested.

Thanks for sharing an insight into your early twenties....


However, after a guy has spent the last six years continually nailing the hottest model on the planet, he's going to be a lot more depressed about going without after she dumps him, because he knows what he's missing out on.


I would have got tired of her shit after 6 months and started banging somebody else. But thats just me. I wouldn't be depressed either. Probably the best thing that happened to the guy caus he can try SOMETHING NEW.

[Stumps]

Stumps, the only die hards that will continue to suuport the Kings if BG goes are buffheads like me who have been supporting the team for god knows how long. There has been alot of water pass under the bridge over the last 16 years. Not just Kings stuff, life stuff and the Kings have been inter woven in that. When that happens to the die hards it'ts very difficult to cut and run. Letting go is not easy.
The problem is that if Goorjian leaves and 90% of the players do the same, and the ownership changes, there will be nothing connecting whatever constitutes the Kings next year to any previous editions. With no continuity whatsoever, will it still be the Kings? I'm all for loyalty, but there is a point at which it defies logic. I'd almost be inclined to follow whichever club ends up the home of most of the current lineup (including Goorj), so impressed have I been with their efforts this year. They'll always be the real Kings. Let's hope and pray that remains reality as well as abstract.

[phill]

Maybe it's Option A or C for you Stumps?

[Stumps]

Great attitude mate. The Kings need fans like you and you want to jump on the A-League band wagon.
I was playing football well before I played basketball. I became attracted to the Kings way back when that name meant something. It still means something. If it stops meaning something, then my interest will decline significantly. To think otherwise would be illogical. That's why I have no problem with people who switched to the Razorbacks -- if they found a team that better suited their expectations and attitudes, then good on them. That's what sport's about.

I can remember when the Kings were huge, and there was no Goorj then. Yes it was a different world back then, and we are up against it. But giving in is no solution. Do you throw the baby out with the bath water? No you start again. I know you like analogies so what you are basically saying is if you have a sick child, don't try to nurse it back to health just euthenise it and have a new baby.
A better analogy would be if your child loses its limbs, its brain and its heart, how long do you kid yourself that it can still somehow survive?

You may be a realist and the odds are quite possibly in your favour. But if everybody had your attitude the game will die
Excuse me, if everybody had my attitude the game would never have looked like dying, because I was one of the few thousand of those original 10,000 fans who came to every game who stuck to the Kings through all the disappointments and embarrassments of the 90s, and all the years of this decade when basketball has been an irrelevant second tier sport in this country.

Game 5 showed there is hope.
I disagree. I think it showed that Sydney will come out for a "cool" bandwagon event, no matter what it is, but if you think that will translate into increased support next season, you're kidding yourself -- and that's even if Goorjian and co stay. The crowd was large in number, but it was terrible in atmosphere and passion. Less than half as many people made much more noise in Game 3 of the Wildcats series.

I would have got tired of her shit after 6 months and started banging somebody else. But thats just me. I wouldn't be depressed either. Probably the best thing that happened to the guy caus he can try SOMETHING NEW.
Unless that new thing is, say, the A-League, right?

[Stumps]

Maybe it's Option A or C for you Stumps?
B is the Razorbacks. It's been tried and it doesn't work.

[havrilla the gorilla]

[/quote]

I'm all for loyalty, but there is a point at which it defies logic. I'd almost be inclined to follow whichever club ends up the home of most of the current lineup (including Goorj), so impressed have I been with their efforts this year. They'll always be the real Kings. Let's hope and pray that remains reality as well as abstract.[/quote]


No there isn't that point. I think you defy logic. When that current lineup retire or go overseas who are you gonna support then? CSKA?

Is anybody bigger than the club? You are an absolute disgrace. Have fun at the A-League next year Johnny come lately. Maybe when Sydney FC dispand you can support Perth.

I don't like hurling personal insults but you are an absolute gronk. I really really hope you are taking the piss :evil:

[Stumps]

No there isn't that point. I think you defy logic. When that current lineup retire or go overseas who are you gonna support then? CSKA?
Entire lineups leaving a team at the same time ... that's an everyday occurrence, right? Perhaps next time you plan to embarrass yourself abusing somebody else for stating their personal view, you should at least do them the service of actually reading and understanding it first.

Is anybody bigger than the club?
What is "the club" then? Do you just support a coloured singlet, regardless of what it means or stands for? That kind of mindless patriotism has been responsible for a lot of reprehensible behaviour over the centuries.

You are an absolute disgrace. Have fun at the A-League next year Johnny come lately. Maybe when Sydney FC dispand you can support Perth.

I don't like hurling personal insults but you are an absolute gronk. I really really hope you are taking the piss :evil:
Good to see a man who has his priorities sorted out -- anybody who stops following a sporting team is worse than Hitler, but you're a dickhead if you don't get bored of your woman and leave her after six months. Mate, you've got some serious problems.

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=havrilla the gorilla]Great attitude mate. The Kings need fans like you and you want to jump on the A-League band wagon.
I was playing football well before I played basketball.

So you supported Sydney Olympic then in between Kings games?

I became attracted to the Kings way back when that name meant something. It still means something. If it stops meaning something, then my interest will decline significantly. To think otherwise would be illogical. That's why I have no problem with people who switched to the Razorbacks -- if they found a team that better suited their expectations and attitudes, then good on them. That's what sport's about.

That's Bullshit. Wonder what makes the AFL great - tradition, loyalty and taking your son to watch the team your father took you to watch. You switch teams based on their personnelle?
I can remember when the Kings were huge, and there was no Goorj then. Yes it was a different world back then, and we are up against it. But giving in is no solution. Do you throw the baby out with the bath water? No you start again. I know you like analogies so what you are basically saying is if you have a sick child, don't try to nurse it back to health just euthenise it and have a new baby.
A better analogy would be if your child loses its limbs, its brain and its heart, how long do you kid yourself that it can still somehow survive?

You may be a realist and the odds are quite possibly in your favour. But if everybody had your attitude the game will die
Excuse me, if everybody had my attitude the game would never have looked like dying, because I was one of the few thousand of those original 10,000 fans who came to every game who stuck to the Kings through all the disappointments and embarrassments of the 90s, and all the years of this decade when basketball has been an irrelevant second tier sport in this country.

It wasn't irrelevant in 1991 when it reached fever pitch and live television killed it quicker than quick.
Game 5 showed there is hope.
I disagree. I think it showed that Sydney will come out for a "cool" bandwagon event,

Like the A-League?
no matter what it is, but if you think that will translate into increased support next season, you're kidding yourself -- and that's even if Goorjian and co stay. The crowd was large in number, but it was terrible in atmosphere and passion.

Big Deal....if you payes your money who cares what you do in the stadium. Maybe they can get some decent entertainment to evoke crowd response, and while they are at it positive coutside figures instead of Wayne McDaniel and that stupid Paddle Pop Lion
Less than half as many people made much more noise in Game 3 of the Wildcats series.

I would have got tired of her shit after 6 months and started banging somebody else. But thats just me. I wouldn't be depressed either. Probably the best thing that happened to the guy caus he can try SOMETHING NEW.
Unless that new thing is, say, the A-League, right?[/quote:pwcyfino]

No I was thinking more along the lines of re-inventing Basketball

[Stumps]

Any chance your brain could manage making that last dog's breakfast readable before I tear the shit out of it?

[havrilla the gorilla]

Entire lineups leaving a team at the same time ... that's an everyday occurrence, right? Perhaps next time you plan to embarrass yourself abusing somebody else for stating their personal view, you should at least do them the service of actually reading and understanding it first.

You like to use the word embarrassing a lot. I am happy to stick with my guns and my NBL club, unlike you. You don't really read or interpret yourself do you? You just wait to reply with your "I'm never wrong" persona. My point to you smart ass was that say the whole Kings team(bet it doesn't happen anyway) go to South, and from there split or retire, do you stay in South or take the Stumps bandwagon with Kendall, or Hinder to other clubs. The fact we are even discussing how somebody could change teams shows what you are about anyway.

Good to see a man who has his priorities sorted out -- anybody who stops following a sporting team is worse than Hitler, but you're a dickhead if you don't get bored of your woman and leave her after six months. Mate, you've got some serious problems.

I said model after six months dickhead not my woman. Told you that you didn't read properly. You obviously havn't been there then? Married the first chick you scored then? You sound it.[/b]

[havrilla the gorilla]

Any chance your brain could manage making that last dog's breakfast readable before I tear the shit out of it?



Thought it was just about on your cultural level actually....

[Stumps]

So you supported Sydney Olympic then in between Kings games?
No, because I felt no connection to them, just as I would possibly feel no connection to the Kings if everything that I currently identify them with disappeared overnight.

That's Bullshit. Wonder what makes the AFL great - tradition, loyalty and taking your son to watch the team your father took you to watch. You switch teams based on their personnelle?
No, I don't. But I've never been faced with the prospect of the entire personnel, the entire personality of a team disappearing in one fell swoop. Don't worry, you've made it abundantly clear through your posts in the last month that if Eddie had signed up Charles Manson, Herman Goerring, Jack the Ripper, OJ Simpson and Alex Loughton to be the Bullets starting five, you'd still be droning "Let's go Bullets, let's go!" with the same vacant-minded enthusiasm. That's not me, I'm afraid.

I've stuck with the Kings for about 18 years, through endless small (and even big) changes. That's all a normal part of sport. But I can't remember the last time a team had just about every identifiable component walk out the door. I hope there's enough left for me to still love what remains if that happens, but I can't guarantee it. If my open-mindedness upsets you in some way, then perhaps you should be looking inward rather than just abusing me.

Excuse me, if everybody had my attitude the game would never have looked like dying, because I was one of the few thousand of those original 10,000 fans who came to every game who stuck to the Kings through all the disappointments and embarrassments of the 90s, and all the years of this decade when basketball has been an irrelevant second tier sport in this country.
It wasn't irrelevant in 1991 when it reached fever pitch and live television killed it quicker than quick.
What exactly is your point? Is 1991 in "this decade"? Are you an imbecile?

no matter what it is, but if you think that will translate into increased support next season, you're kidding yourself -- and that's even if Goorjian and co stay. The crowd was large in number, but it was terrible in atmosphere and passion.
Big Deal....if you payes your money who cares what you do in the stadium.
My goodness, you're a total half-wit. My point was that the transient crowd was not exhibiting any sign that they were becoming enraptured, that they would be back for ordinary regular season games next season.

No I was thinking more along the lines of re-inventing Basketball
Please, do explain your fantastic vision for achieving this, one that has somehow eluded thousands of people with fifty times your intellect for the last twelve years.

[Stumps]

You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.

I am happy to stick with my guns and my NBL club, unlike you.
In other words, you are continually wilfully blind.

You don't really read or interpret yourself do you?
I generally find that's not necessary, considering I know what I wrote and I know what I meant.

You just wait to reply with your "I'm never wrong" persona.
No, it's actually my "have a go at this semi-literate tool who's dared to call me an 'absolute gronk' (whatever that is) for speculating about my own potential future viewpoints" persona.

The fact we are even discussing how somebody could change teams shows what you are about anyway.
I'm about the Kings as I love them right now. Feel free to explain to me why it's so much more logical to follow a coloured singlet rather than a genuine identity and a collection of people that you admire.

I said model after six months dickhead not my woman.
Right, so you're rooting her for six months but she's not your woman? Oh, you big player you!

You obviously havn't been there then?
Dumping the hottest model on the planet when getting "sick of her shit" after six months? No ... no I haven't, actually.

Married the first chick you scored then? You sound it.
Yes, he really does think he's a player!

[ash_24]

You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the fuck up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":1s9fr0ri]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....[/quote:1s9fr0ri]


Love ya work Ash....can you believe this guy and his History Lessons?

[Cussy]

I think ash24 was talking to Stumps.

[DDFan]

Hey Havrilla, what if Ash's post was aimed at Stumps?
Now that's be embarrassing. :P

note edit:
Sorry TC. You beat me to it.

[Stumps]

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you?
Of course I do. You make the mistake of assuming that I would care about what brickheads think. If folks like you agreed wholeheartedly with everything I wrote, then I'd know I was doing something wrong.

So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on.
Yes, it certainly would be nice for people like you.

From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....
Do you come here much? Almost every day mattic laughs at somebody for this type of fallacious argument, yet still it continues.

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....
Would you support your team if they started assassinating opposition players in order to win games? Or refusing to hire non-whites on the grounds that they're racially inferior? If not, think about what terms like "no matter what" mean. "No matter what" goes a long way, and blind loyalty has been responsible for pretty much most atrocities throughout history. The fact that you assume unthinking self-delusion is automatically a positive trait shows how wise it is to ignore any opinion you express, because there's no guarantee that it has a logical basis -- it might just be what somebody or something you're "loyal" to told you to believe.

[Stumps]

[quote=Stumps][quote="havrilla the gorilla":3bhhhott]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....[/quote:3bhhhott]


Mate I really couldn't give a shit how I come off to you in your expert opinion. Who asked you to jump in anyway, I think Stumps is handling himself pretty well. Everybody is pretty tough when it comes to a forum aren't they? Feel better now you dedicated an entire post to having a shot at me? It is an NBL forum - anything to contribute there big guy?

At least I talk Basketball. I don't waste time with that utter shit you just posted, and you tell me to look in the mirror?

Nice one - and I embarrass myself. Yeah that's good coming from you.[/quote:3bhhhott]
http://www.garmentdistrict.com/store/popculture/southpark/cripple_sm.jpg

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=havrilla the gorilla]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.

I am happy to stick with my guns and my NBL club, unlike you.
In other words, you are continually wilfully blind.

You don't really read or interpret yourself do you?
I generally find that's not necessary, considering I know what I wrote and I know what I meant.

You just wait to reply with your "I'm never wrong" persona.
No, it's actually my "have a go at this semi-literate tool who's dared to call me an 'absolute gronk' (whatever that is) for speculating about my own potential future viewpoints" persona.

The fact we are even discussing how somebody could change teams shows what you are about anyway.
I'm about the Kings as I love them right now. Feel free to explain to me why it's so much more logical to follow a coloured singlet rather than a genuine identity and a collection of people that you admire.

I said model after six months dickhead not my woman.
Right, so you're rooting her for six months but she's not your woman? Oh, you big player you!

You obviously havn't been there then?
Dumping the hottest model on the planet when getting "sick of her shit" after six months? No ... no I haven't, actually.

Married the first chick you scored then? You sound it.
Yes, he really does think he's a player![/quote:iy7x6stz]



Mate this is starting to spiral out of control in the wrong direction. We have gone from the Sydney Kings to Virgins to Models and now I am questioning your abilities as a ladies man and you are questioning my literacy skills(which is the equivalent of me calling you a gigalo if I told you my day job) :lol:

Sorry if you felt I was abusing your opinion, I just get passionate when it comes to these kinds of things. Despite our colourful E-mails I am fine with you personally, I just happen to disagree with you that is all.

The world would be a boring place if everybody thought alike. Was that intellectual enough for you? {insert your historical reference here to try to undermine me}

Catch ya next topic

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=Stumps][quote="havrilla the gorilla":12uargkq]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....[/quote:12uargkq][/quote:12uargkq]





NOW THAT'S FUNNY. STUMPS I CAN SEE A LITTLE TIMMY IN YOU FOR SURE..... :P

[ash_24]

[quote=Stumps][quote="havrilla the gorilla":2duze6ml]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....[/quote:2duze6ml]


Mate I really couldn't give a shit how I come off to you in your expert opinion. Who asked you to jump in anyway, I think Stumps is handling himself pretty well. Everybody is pretty tough when it comes to a forum aren't they? Feel better now you dedicated an entire post to having a shot at me? It is an NBL forum - anything to contribute there big guy?

At least I talk Basketball. I don't waste time with that utter shit you just posted, and you tell me to look in the mirror?

Nice one - and I embarrass myself. Yeah that's good coming from you.[/quote:2duze6ml]
Umm, yeah. Not talking to you.... :?

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":ntu2tgt9]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....[/quote:ntu2tgt9]




Oh Shit, I think you guys are right.



:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:


Oh man Sorry Buddy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ash_24]

[quote=Stumps][quote="havrilla the gorilla":32z1naz3]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....[/quote:32z1naz3]




Oh Shit, I think you guys are right.



:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:


Oh man Sorry Buddy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote:32z1naz3]
All good. :D

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="ash_24":qg9lbxxw][quote=Stumps][quote="havrilla the gorilla":qg9lbxxw]You like to use the word embarrassing a lot.
Only when describing your behaviour.
:roll: :lol:

You really don't have a clue how you come off on here, do you? So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on. From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....[/quote:qg9lbxxw][/quote:qg9lbxxw][/quote:qg9lbxxw]




Ash 24 Sorry mate. Thanks for the backup. Forget everything I said, didn't mean a word of it. Great post! :o

[ash_24]

]And yeah, those people who support their team no matter what. Idiots....
Would you support your team if they started assassinating opposition players in order to win games? Or refusing to hire non-whites on the grounds that they're racially inferior? If not, think about what terms like "no matter what" mean. "No matter what" goes a long way, and blind loyalty has been responsible for pretty much most atrocities throughout history. The fact that you assume unthinking self-delusion is automatically a positive trait shows how wise it is to ignore any opinion you express, because there's no guarantee that it has a logical basis -- it might just be what somebody or something you're "loyal" to told you to believe.
See. That right there, is the sort of crap that makes you look like a patronising tool. You know what I meant, yet you break it down in which ever way you please, just so you can rip into someone.

You realise that I am a 36ers supporter, right? All the crap I've endured over the past two years, with a coach I didn't support, half a roster of guys who were lucky to be in the league, and most importantly, horrible results, yet I still supported tham. I went to games and I stayed behind my team. I'm not an idiot for doing so, it doesn't make me naive. It means that I love the club as a whole, and will put up with trash for a short while of I have to. Think I was happy? Go check out Isaac's forum, I'm poster twenty four over there. I can't even begin to imagine how much displeasure I voiced on how things were going, as were many others, with what was once the best damn basketball club in the country.

Why am I bringing this up? Because according to you, if you don't support each individual in the organisation, what the hell is the point. If the things you grew accustomed to dissapear, then why bother? You do it for the love, not just the glory. That's why.

Look, more often than not I enjoy what you do on these boards, and agree with you on lots of things. But there is no need to jump down the throat of anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you. More so, there's no need to treat everyone as if they are inferior to you. Which, IMO, happens all too frequently with you.

[Stumps]

Mate this is starting to spiral out of control in the wrong direction. We have gone from the Sydney Kings to Virgins to Models and now I am questioning your abilities as a ladies man and you are questioning my literacy skills(which is the equivalent of me calling you a gigalo if I told you my day job) :lol:
If you're implying it has anything to do with literacy, then I genuinely grieve for your employer!

Sorry if you felt I was abusing your opinion, I just get passionate when it comes to these kinds of things. Despite our colourful E-mails I am fine with you personally, I just happen to disagree with you that is all.
You disagree with me that I might throw it all in if I can't recognise anything about the Kings next season? You might be right. I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. I won't know how I feel until it happens.

The world would be a boring place if everybody thought alike. Was that intellectual enough for you? {insert your historical reference here to try to undermine me}
I don't expect you to agree with me. I do, however, think that at a time when more and more people have more and more genuine reasons to be fed up with the NBL than ever before, insulting people who go to the trouble of explaining what those reasons might be is hardly going to solve the problem. Maybe years of saying "those stupid disloyal bastards" rather than asking precisely why those people aren't interested in the game anymore has contributed to the problematic state the league is currently in.

[havrilla the gorilla]

Bravo. And I'm not just saying that because I accidentally put shit on you. Each to their own, but I am highly offended at the thought of changing teams. It's not just the clothes(in the words of our patronising friend...I'm sure he ripped that off Seinfeld) but the team I have followed for over 20 years in the city I have always lived in, the team my folks took me to watch, the good times and the bad times. Would you still love your brother if he was in jail?

Good to hear you are a true fan. 8)

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=havrilla the gorilla]Mate this is starting to spiral out of control in the wrong direction. We have gone from the Sydney Kings to Virgins to Models and now I am questioning your abilities as a ladies man and you are questioning my literacy skills(which is the equivalent of me calling you a gigalo if I told you my day job) :lol:
If you're implying it has anything to do with literacy, then I genuinely grieve for your employer!

Sorry if you felt I was abusing your opinion, I just get passionate when it comes to these kinds of things. Despite our colourful E-mails I am fine with you personally, I just happen to disagree with you that is all.
You disagree with me that I might throw it all in if I can't recognise anything about the Kings next season? You might be right. I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. I won't know how I feel until it happens.

The world would be a boring place if everybody thought alike. Was that intellectual enough for you? {insert your historical reference here to try to undermine me}
I don't expect you to agree with me. I do, however, think that at a time when more and more people have more and more genuine reasons to be fed up with the NBL than ever before, insulting people who go to the trouble of explaining what those reasons might be is hardly going to solve the problem. Maybe years of saying "those stupid disloyal bastards" rather than asking precisely why those people aren't interested in the game anymore has contributed to the problematic state the league is currently in.[/quote:1clt6e7h]


Like I said in my first ever post to you, your bravado is shameful. You think you are somehow an intellectual by using as many 50c words as possible to appear superior with your ramblings? You claim to be married yet you seem to be here an awful lot looking at your little computer screen in the middle of the night... mate my literacy is fine and my employer thinks as much also. Bet your wife is no where near as satisfied...

What do you do for a job then smart guy?

[Stumps]

See. That right there, is the sort of crap that makes you look like a patronising tool. You know what I meant, yet you break it down in which ever way you please, just so you can rip into someone.
Just so I can rip into someone? Sorry, you're making it sound like I invited you to come into this thread without contributing anything and have a personal go at me :lol:

You realise that I am a 36ers supporter, right? All the crap I've endured over the past two years, with a coach I didn't support, half a roster of guys who were lucky to be in the league, and most importantly, horrible results, yet I still supported tham. I went to games and I stayed behind my team. I'm not an idiot for doing so, it doesn't make me naive. It means that I love the club as a whole, and will put up with trash for a short while of I have to. Think I was happy? Go check out Isaac's forum, I'm poster twenty four over there. I can't even begin to imagine how much displeasure I voiced on how things were going, as were many others, with what was once the best damn basketball club in the country.
Gee, I wouldn't know what any of that is like as a Kings fan. We've been the envy of the entire league, since, like, forever.

Why am I bringing this up? Because according to you, if you don't support each individual in the organisation, what the hell is the point.
According to me? Where did you get that from?

If the things you grew accustomed to dissapear, then why bother? You do it for the love, not just the glory. That's why.
The love of what? A logo? A name? That's supposed to make sense?

If there is absolutely no continuity between what I know and love as the Kings, and whatever is bearing that name next season (and we don't know whether that will be the case or not), then why would that love remain undiminished? It's certainly not about the glory. I've sat through a decade during which there was a grand return of three home playoff games.

If the Sixers relocated to Hong Kong, would you remain a fan? If their crazy owner drove absolutely every single employee out of the business and turned it into something completely different, wouldn't you wonder whether it was still the same team? There have to be limits to blind loyalty.

Look, more often than not I enjoy what you do on these boards, and agree with you on lots of things. But there is no need to jump down the throat of anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that I was the one who put out the opinion only to have people jump down MY throat.

More so, there's no need to treat everyone as if they are inferior to you. Which, IMO, happens all too frequently with you.
It happens when people who ARE inferior (in the relevant regard) have a go at me (or at somebody else who doesn't deserve it). It certainly doesn't happen to "everyone".

[Stumps]

You think you are somehow an intellectual by using as many 50c words as possible to appear superior with your ramblings?
What's a 50c word?

You claim to be married yet you seem to be here an awful lot looking at your little computer screen in the middle of the night...
I'm trying to put a baby to sleep, if you must know.

mate my literacy is fine and my employer thinks as much also. Bet your wife is no where near as satisfied...
Yes, I would definitely not compare my wife's satisfaction with me to your employer's satisfaction with your literacy. One opinion is well-informed, for a start.

What do you do for a job then smart guy?
I'm a lawyer working in IT.

[havrilla the gorilla]

No, I don't. But I've never been faced with the prospect of the entire personnel, the entire personality of a team disappearing in one fell swoop. Don't worry, you've made it abundantly clear through your posts in the last month that if Eddie had signed up Charles Manson, Herman Goerring, Jack the Ripper, OJ Simpson and Alex Loughton to be the Bullets starting five, you'd still be droning "Let's go Bullets, let's go!" with the same vacant-minded enthusiasm. That's not me, I'm afraid.



Alex Loughton is going too far..... :shock:

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=havrilla the gorilla]You think you are somehow an intellectual by using as many 50c words as possible to appear superior with your ramblings?
What's a 50c word?

You're the dictionary - you tell me.
You claim to be married yet you seem to be here an awful lot looking at your little computer screen in the middle of the night...
I'm trying to put a baby to sleep, if you must know.

Not doing a very good job, you are posting on a forum. Please tell me this isn't the highlight of your day.
mate my literacy is fine and my employer thinks as much also. Bet your wife is no where near as satisfied...
Yes, I would definitely not compare my wife's satisfaction with me to your employer's satisfaction with your literacy. One opinion is well-informed, for a start.

You hope
What do you do for a job then smart guy?
I'm a lawyer working in IT.[/quote:8d82zjrp]


Wow aren't you the intellectual giant. Ever shot a basketball?
Picked you as an IT nerd weeks ago

Breakfast is ready! Here Boy!

[Stumps]

Textbook inferiority complex with all the accompanying cliches.

[JWC]

\As a fanI do think loyalty and continuity are important to maintaining one's interest in a team. I make an emotional attachment, (they become the good guys), and when they become the enemy, it is painful. As fans, we invest a lot in these guys. It still hurts when cj and EBi play against us...Conflicting feelings, EBi will always be a King after that Game 5 against WS, but it pains me to see him against us.,, Cj really was a stab in the back when he was released from his contract to go OS, and then he winds up playing against us. Barlow is another one that the club carefully nurtured, and his fans invested in heavily and then he sticks the knife in,,,,and displays no loyalty to his club or fans. ....If the players show no loyalty, then why should the fans have any loyalty in return?....If Bg and most of the players bail out, I'll certainly seriously consider bailing out as well.....would be too painful playing against them all on other teams.

[ol'timer]

I try not to get emotional on half truths and 3rd hand stories.
Since Friday night some observations (after attending the Sun team/fans arfternoon)
1/After all the S**t this year everyone is up to date with payments-that doesnt of course remove distrust from current owner for what happened
2/BG does have 1 yr to run on his contract and insiders seem to think he will be back
3/Met acouple of the prev mentioned owners...very committed and passionate about the game and have an understanding and desire to fix the problems of the past.
4/Imports would love to come back.
5/Mike W will be chairman-this is my view.
I walked away on Sun almost convinced all will be well based on the facts I had...Looking forward to 2008 season

[singy]

I don't want to paraphrase for Stumps, as I think he's made himself pretty clear in this topic, but I can see where he's coming from. I can tell you right now - if CJ were to end up in a Tigers uniform (something I'm not expecting mind you), I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for him. I just don't like the guy, never have, and can't see that changing. I'm a proud and fiercely loyal guy, but even that has its limits.

It's the same in the NBA, and maybe to a lesser extent in the NRL and AFL. The NBA players get moved around so often that I see myself now following players rather than teams, or simply just watching matchups between 2 good teams, regardless of my allegiances. It's one of the reasons why I think there's generally a lack of passion in NBA crowds compared to the college basketball crowds. They must feel some type of lack of identification with their team after the personnel change so often. The NRL is another example, but the thing I don't like about that is how players can announce during the season that they are leaving. I just don't understand how that can be good for a sport (sorry, slightly off-topic).

[Stanley]

I don't buy that a cleanout means the club will die.

Many thought after getting rid of Joyce and the 7-player cleanout last off-season Hawks would struggle for support, a completely new team played hard from the outset and for the most parts crowds grew over the season, even as losses piled up.

Sure Hawks nearly folded recently, but that was due to past errors.
Like the Kings, an expensive on court program was a key component to the losses. Hawks lost a big part of the team (Sav, Ballinger, Cortez, Casey Frank, Rampton).

I'd like to think there's enough real Kings fans to support the team, not just an individual.

But going by the ovation Goorj gets when introduced, it's like nothing i've witnessed in sports. A coach getting a louder reception than any player, it's almost like Goorj is a spiritual being being introduced at Hillsong.

So comparing Goorj leaving Kings with Joyce leaving Hawks is like comparing Skindog with LeBron, thus making my thought/hope Kings can survive without him void.

[Stumps]

Many thought after getting rid of Joyce and the 7-player cleanout last off-season Hawks would struggle for support, a completely new team played hard from the outset and for the most parts crowds grew over the season, even as losses piled up.
Joyce was becoming increasingly unpopular with the Hawks faithful, and there was no suggestion that he'd take every single person on the team with him. You can't really compare him to Goorjian's iconic status.

Ah, just got through the rest of your post ... you came to that conclusion yourself :wink:

[lawsy82]

I don't want to paraphrase for Stumps, as I think he's made himself pretty clear in this topic, but I can see where he's coming from. I can tell you right now - if CJ were to end up in a Tigers uniform (something I'm not expecting mind you), I will find it incredibly difficult to cheer for him. I just don't like the guy, never have, and can't see that changing. I'm a proud and fiercely loyal guy, but even that has its limits.

It's the same in the NBA, and maybe to a lesser extent in the NRL and AFL. The NBA players get moved around so often that I see myself now following players rather than teams, or simply just watching matchups between 2 good teams, regardless of my allegiances. It's one of the reasons why I think there's generally a lack of passion in NBA crowds compared to the college basketball crowds. They must feel some type of lack of identification with their team after the personnel change so often. The NRL is another example, but the thing I don't like about that is how players can announce during the season that they are leaving. I just don't understand how that can be good for a sport (sorry, slightly off-topic).

I agree with this post. I feel thats where the kings suffered after their first title. losing hammer, williams, kavossy really affected crowds IMO. Sure we got cj, and a few others but kings loved hammer. The NBA is just a joke with trades loyalty etc. Guys over there leave clubs beacuse they dont get the maximum but will go to a losing team for 2 million more. Today is D day for the kings. They must keep the coach and majority of the roster

[Earnie Shavers]

Were Hawks fans treated to 10 years of complete shit management/ownership? Did the Hawks win 3 championship in a row and lose between a quarter and a third of their support with each one? It really takes a special effort to not just completely fail to win over new fans when you have such a great product on court, but to actually lose several hundred of the faithful with every season. Every single season for 10 years. Ever wonder why? I think Kings fans long ago abandoned any mythical connection to 'club' and instead realigned their commitment almost totally to 'team'. 'Club' went out the window with fans a long while ago in the same way it seems to have with this team this season. The team committed only to themselves this season, and I think that's why fans loved this years team so much, they completely understood, as several seasons earlier they also linked to only them and away from the greater club or whatever. 10 years of bad management destroyed the club, 6 years of Brian Goorjian saved the team.

You take that away, and no, I don't think many will have much time for it anymore. If, when Brett Brown left in 2002, Goorjian were not available and the Kings continued to underachieve on court, combined with the crap management of everything off court, I'd suggest that the door would definitely have already shut by now. Anyone and everyone paying close attention to the Kings over the past few years knows it too. It's precisely why Wrublewski is not interested in buying the club if it does not come with Goorjian. If you buy the Kings without Goorjian, you are buying a dud, a lemon. Also, if you can't see that over the past decade the whole thing has been destroyed to the point where it is absolutely *only* about what happens on court with this group and that coach, then you really don't have the ability to run the thing at all. Kings fans will see that bad judgement from a mile away as well, and treat any new owner who happily does that with even more contempt than they have for this current one. Given that to do that they'd have to outbid/scuttle the Wrublewski/Goorjian deal as well, they'll be starting off in a hole with fans that they'll never fight their way out of.

Remember also that this isn't about a coach or players just putting their hand up for the highest bidder. They've been f*cked around good and proper, and all Kings fans completely understand that and completely support them. It's not like a star coach or player/s leaving for themselves, running off to $250K at the Bullets or something. The anger will all be on the Kings club. Again. (Just want to add that 'Kings management' does not equal 'Kings staff' who time and again do show great passion/commitment/intelligence while working with zero support, resources etc).

[AngusH]

If BG goes and the Kings field a nearly entirely different roster next year, I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it. I'd go to the first couple of games at least, but I've grown so attached to the current players and coach that we have that it'd feel like I was supporting an entirely different club.

[metalslugsman]

Shouldn't the team be bigger than any individual? It's not called the 'Goorjian Kings' or the Goorjian Smith Kendall Hinder Wortho BJ Crossy Saville Dontaye Isiah Cam Blake etc Kings. Questioning your ability to support your team because the coach leaves or some of the players leave is terrible and only supports the suggestion that Kings fans are fickle bandwaggoners. Why would someone buy the team and keep it going and spend money on it if even diehard fans posting on these boards are questioning their ability to support the team?

I've supported the Wildcats for over 20 years - through 4 owners, 8 or 9 coaches and heaps of players. I have players i liked, players i didn't, players i knew - it didn't matter who was there I supported the team. Sydney supporters have to concentrate less on the 'personalities' and remember to support your team. THis Goorjian/current team 'cult of personality' is disturbing and will lead to the downfall of your team if you don't all get over it and get behind your club

[fan since the old snakepit]

I can see the point of many on here about loyalty to the players, but I dont understand as I would think that;
1) They will all not leave. Unless the contracted players have a Goorj goes I go out clause.
2) If you enjoy the sport of basketball you will still go and watch the game, be it the Kings, or the Pigs as they are the teams in your city who play at the higest level. If the Kings go there will probably be enough of the public who first and foremost love the sport , who would go and watch the viable alternative and as such make a club who attempts to spend within their means more of a viable proposition.
3) Goorj and the team will eventually move on anyway, so if you are saying what you are, Goorj & the players remaining next year is only delaying the inevitable.
4) If the players gave a shit about you as much as you do about them they would stay , even if their contracts were smaller.

[Lemon Custard]

(this post was directed at Metalslugsman)

And Stumps hasn't been through that? He's just like me, only a little older. I've supported the Kings my entire life. We became members when I was 2 years old. I turned 21 last Thursday. I've lived through more than a decade of crappy performances, 4 coaches, 2 venues, 4 different coloured uniforms, 3 championship victories, 2 championship losses, several ownership changes and too many imports to count.

I've lived through all of that, but I still I understand where Stumps is coming from, and I agree. While we've lived through coaches leaving, players leaving and ownership changes, we've never had all three happen at exactly the same time. Sure, history shows we can recover from a coach or a couple of players, but this time, it's everyone. If the coach goes, so do they. We have to get a coach who isn't as good, because no one is better. We won't just lose one guy, we will lose the entire team (except maybe one or two who were born Kings and will die Kings).

I can't say how I will feel if this happens, because I just don't know, I've spent my entire life loving the purple and gold, and I simply can't imagine a life without them. But don't for a second question loyalty to a team, simply because we aren't sure how we are going to feel about everyone leaving - but know, for sure, that it will be hard to support an entirely new team, with an entirely new identity.

[cammo]

It's a funny thing having BG as your teams coach. Great to have him, but when he leaves, you're fucked and when you look back on it, you wonder wether your team would've been better off if they hadn't got him in the first place.

[curious]

What has BG got to do with an owner that never managed to pay bills on time.
Mis management by the owner has caused this problem. Nothing more.

[cammo]

Where did I mention that BG had anything to do with an owner that never managed to pay bills on time, or that he was the cause of the problem in my post?

[curious]

.....you wonder wether your team would've been better off if they hadn't got him in the first place.
Thats why I replied in that way.
Without BG they would still be the Kings of old. All the talent in the world with nothing to show for it.

[Southern Joe]

Shouldn't the team be bigger than any individual? It's not called the 'Goorjian Kings' or the Goorjian Smith Kendall Hinder Wortho BJ Crossy Saville Dontaye Isiah Cam Blake etc Kings. Questioning your ability to support your team because the coach leaves or some of the players leave is terrible and only supports the suggestion that Kings fans are fickle bandwaggoners. Why would someone buy the team and keep it going and spend money on it if even diehard fans posting on these boards are questioning their ability to support the team?

I've supported the Wildcats for over 20 years - through 4 owners, 8 or 9 coaches and heaps of players. I have players i liked, players i didn't, players i knew - it didn't matter who was there I supported the team. Sydney supporters have to concentrate less on the 'personalities' and remember to support your team. THis Goorjian/current team 'cult of personality' is disturbing and will lead to the downfall of your team if you don't all get over it and get behind your club


..... Next year will be a landmark year for me personally. It will represent 20 yrs of supporting the Kings. 18 and a half years of that has been as a long distance supporter from here in melbourne.

I have been through all the lows ,... the season we came 3rd last, the season we missed the play offs after leading the comp at Christmas, the revovling import doors, the failed imports, the Violet Crumble taunts...

But I have been through all the highs. I spent the last few dollars I had that weekend to be in Perth for the first title, I have since enjoyed two more titles. I also still remember ringing Big Rich during a semi final that wasn't televised when CJ hit two free throws & all I could hear was the SKFC & the crowd going nuts. ( I'm not even sure which season that was) , I still remeber my first game live ( Vs Nth Melbourne Giants.. a win in OT), also that memorable win Vs Perth when Perth were ladder leaders in 1989, all the great games down here, my daughter winning my prize at a Kings/Vic Giants game down here, my son being on court for the dizzy lay up challenge in Game 4 just gone( the greatest game I have ever seen)... plenty more in both categories.

I hope in y heart of hearts that BG stays. BUT ,.....

BUT ..... if he does go .... & players go as well .... life goes on ... just like we won't slit our wrists because we lost a GF series we shoulda won after the reg. season we had. IF BG goes ... yes, it'll be strange without him, yes it will take some rebuilding ... but ... BUT ... this will be the time when the Kings need our support the most!!!!!!

[Stumps]

Shouldn't the team be bigger than any individual?
It's not about AN individual. It's about ALL the individuals. Define for me what the "team" is, if it's not the collective spirit of the guys busting their guts for its success. Read Earnie's post about team vs club -- as always, he's totally nailed what I'm thinking.

Questioning your ability to support your team because the coach leaves or some of the players leave is terrible and only supports the suggestion that Kings fans are fickle bandwaggoners.
Yeah, that's totally me. Must be tough for you Wildcats fans with your 137 consecutive appearances in the playoffs, or whatever it is -- I bet you really empathise with what it was like to be a Kings fan in the 90s.

Why would someone buy the team and keep it going and spend money on it if even diehard fans posting on these boards are questioning their ability to support the team?
Exactly, why would they? That was my point. If Goorjian leaves and takes everybody with him, they may as well throw the licence in the bin, because nobody with half a brain would buy it.

[cammo]

Thats why I replied in that way.
Without BG they would still be the Kings of old. All the talent in the world with nothing to show for it.

Since when has winning been such an important element of success as a sports organisation? If anything, winning has been detrimental to the club. The problems at the Kings are yet another example of winning not being the answer to running a successful sports organisation. Instead of having all the talent and nothing to show for it, they have all the rings and even less to show. So are they really that better off?

[Stumps]

1) They will all not leave. Unless the contracted players have a Goorj goes I go out clause.
Funny you should mention that ...

If the Kings go there will probably be enough of the public who first and foremost love the sport , who would go and watch the viable alternative and as such make a club who attempts to spend within their means more of a viable proposition.
I hate to tell you that I don't think there are that many people in Sydney who "love basketball", and many of those who do follow the NBA and scoff at the NBL. Most of the Sydney basketball-going public is made up of people who "love the Kings", and if the Kings as they know them disappear thanks to the way they've been run, I can see a lot of those people writing the sport off all together.

3) Goorj and the team will eventually move on anyway, so if you are saying what you are, Goorj & the players remaining next year is only delaying the inevitable.
Everybody moves on or retires eventually. That's fine, and it's a normal part of sport, and we've all lived through decades of it. As I've said a million times in this thread already, it's the potential for the heart of this team to be entirely ripped out all at once that makes this situation special.

4) If the players gave a shit about you as much as you do about them they would stay , even if their contracts were smaller.
I personally couldn't ask any more of the players. They came out and gave 100% every night this year when they didn't know whether they would be getting paid or not. Full credit to them, and there is no obligation upon them to be "loyal" if that means having their livelihoods stuffed around again.

[Stumps]

Since when has winning been such an important element of success as a sports organisation? If anything, winning has been detrimental to the club.
How do you figure that? If instead of winning titles and minor premierships for the last six years, they'd continued their underachievement of the previous decade, you think they'd be better off, all other things being equal? Of course not -- they would have died in the arse much quicker than they have.

[DDFan]

Shouldn't the team be bigger than any individual? It's not called the 'Goorjian Kings' or the Goorjian Smith Kendall Hinder Wortho BJ Crossy Saville Dontaye Isiah Cam Blake etc Kings. Questioning your ability to support your team because the coach leaves or some of the players leave is terrible and only supports the suggestion that Kings fans are fickle bandwaggoners. Why would someone buy the team and keep it going and spend money on it if even diehard fans posting on these boards are questioning their ability to support the team?

I've supported the Wildcats for over 20 years - through 4 owners, 8 or 9 coaches and heaps of players. I have players i liked, players i didn't, players i knew - it didn't matter who was there I supported the team. Sydney supporters have to concentrate less on the 'personalities' and remember to support your team. THis Goorjian/current team 'cult of personality' is disturbing and will lead to the downfall of your team if you don't all get over it and get behind your club
I hope in my heart of hearts that BG stays. BUT ,.....

BUT ..... if he does go .... & players go as well .... life goes on ... just like we won't slit our wrists because we lost a GF series we shoulda won after the reg. season we had. IF BG goes ... yes, it'll be strange without him, yes it will take some rebuilding ... but ... BUT ... this will be the time when the Kings need our support the most!!!!!!
Metalslugsman is singing my chorus, & let me go on record that I'm backing Southern Joe too.
FFS, fan (as in game supporter) is only a 3 letter word. Don't poison the simplicity of it all with historic destructive fanaticism, this is an entertaining game, not a war. Sure, ponder your feels of the future, but don't slip off the demographic fan belt. Stay cool.

[Cussy]

I hope in y heart of hearts that BG stays. BUT ,.....

BUT ..... if he does go .... & players go as well .... life goes on ... just like we won't slit our wrists because we lost a GF series we shoulda won after the reg. season we had. IF BG goes ... yes, it'll be strange without him, yes it will take some rebuilding ... but ... BUT ... this will be the time when the Kings need our support the most!!!!!!

...and I can not lie,
You other brothers can't deny....

[Dunkin' Dan]

Obviously people are on different wavelengths about this, and their support comes from different places. People need to understand and respect that.

I'm a big fan of basketball. I happen to live in Perth, so the Wildcats are my local team, and I will support them for that reason. If we got a new owner tomorrow with new coaches and 10 new players, I'd still sign up without hesitation, because they'd still be my team.

If they stunk it up for years in a row, almost always finishing last, regularly turning over coaches, having playing rosters that were sometimes barely recogniseable from season to season... well - that would make them pretty much like the Perth Lynx in the WNBL - a club I continue to be a member of, and continue to enjoy, in part because it's a CLUB as well as being a group of players representing a certain location playing a certain sport.

Having said that, it seems that there aren't that many people around who genuinely enjoy watching basketball, and that's one of the roots of the NBL's (not just the Kings) problems at the moment.

Sydney were popular before Goorj and they could be popular after Goorj as well. The "what's cool this week?" aspect of Sydney makes me believe that they could pretty much start from scratch and still be OK provided they ticked the right boxes, but some stability is obviously better. Much easier to grow steadily than to try to find a new group of fans every season.
Hopefully they can work something out that allows Goorj to stay for now, but as someone mentioned earlier there's not a lot of point if it's just delaying the inevitable. Let's hope the new owner(s) have a bit more vision for the Kings than the current one.

[cammo]

How do you figure that? If instead of winning titles and minor premierships for the last six years, they'd continued their underachievement of the previous decade, you think they'd be better off, all other things being equal? Of course not -- they would have died in the arse much quicker than they have

Ok, there is some method to my madness. Whilst I'm saying that winning has been detrimental to the Kings, I'm not saying that losing is the answer either.

As you mentioned, over the last six years the Kings have been winning titles and minor premierships. Think about that for a second, six years! That is a long time for any one club to be more or less dominating a professional league. The problem here (and it's not the Kings fault) is that there is a big gap, wether fans or the NBL are willing to admit it or not, between them and other teams in the league. I mean, what's the point of watching a team if you know that they are going to win?

Consider, that the only time that the Kings draw a decent crowd is when people actually believe that the Kings are going to lose. It's no coincidence that the Kings draw bigger crowds when they face greater or equal competition. Check out the attendance figures for the Kings home games in the Grand Final series this year.

Game 1: 3,208

Game 3: 6,009

Game 5: 10,024

Wow, the figures almost doubled each time the Kings lost in each game (can't say I expected that much of an increase).

Even in the series against Perth, there was a steady increase in the attendance figures after a loss

Game 1: 2,640

Game 3: 4,057

These figures are almost a perfect example of what is know as the Louis-Schmelling paradox, a theory in Walter Neale's article, 'The Peculiar Economics of Sport' (a great read for any sports fan, pm me if you're interested).

Over the last six years, the Kings have actually been too good. Again, not necessarily thier fault. But I think that the Kings would've been better off possibly losing more games and being closer to the tier below them (that grey area in between 1st and 2nd tier). Let's be honest, up until the end, the Kings were more or less in a league of their own and when it was found that they were actually vulnerable, up goes the attendance.

[Stumps]

Over the last six years, the Kings have actually been too good. Again, not necessarily thier fault. But I think that the Kings would've been better off possibly losing more games and being closer to the tier below them (that grey area in between 1st and 2nd tier). Let's be honest, up until the end, the Kings were more or less in a league of their own and when it was found that they were actually vulnerable, up goes the attendance.
Ignoring your theory about losses leading to increased crowds (surely you can't ignore the fact that crowds are going to be higher when it's a deciding or potentially deciding game!), based on your theory above the Kings attendances should have been at their highest over the last six years in year 5 (the season the Bullets won), the only time the team was in "that grey area between 1st and 2nd tier" (sitting a level below the Tigers and Bullets).

[cammo]

Ignoring your theory about losses leading to increased crowds (surely you can't ignore the fact that crowds are going to be higher when it's a deciding or potentially deciding game!), based on your theory above the Kings attendances should have been at their highest over the last six years in year 5 (the season the Bullets won), the only time the team was in "that grey area between 1st and 2nd tier" (sitting a level below the Tigers and Bullets).

Well, the finals games are probably a bad example to use given the factors that you mentioned. Perhaps regular season home games would be better? These games were both played on a Saturday.

Breakers 29/12/07: 4113

Tigers 5/1/08: 5182

And yes, according to Neale's theory the Kings should've had better attendance figures in year 5 (the figures may suggest otherwise, and this study would be a lot easier if the NBL didn't have games on a Wednesday which totally screw up the figures).

[Earnie Shavers]

I know that's true (long term dominance can be as bad as long term losing) but I look at those crowds as building steadily all through the playoffs. Remember the Kings get no 'hype' love from the Sydney media. Media attention is mostly limited to game previews/reviews, and any tabloid controversy (Kings Are Going Bust!), so the media attention only grows as the importance of each game grows. As that grows, so the public starts paying attention. Also, look at the days of the week each game is on. Weeknight games, regardless of importance or opposition or whatever, never do well in Sydney. Ever.

SF 1 - Monday. Only negative media support leading (Kings Are Bust!) with little or no mention that there's even a playoff game on. 2600 faithful show, the rest watch on Fox.

SF 3 - Saturday. Decider. Media attention has built around spiteful clash so far, and controversy over possible NBL booting Kings out. 4000 show.

GF 1 - Wednesday. 800 person drop off from last game due to being on a weeknight with a weekend (potentially deciding) game on sale at the same time. But Kings kick arse and Westover gives the middle finger, bumping the story a bit in the news. 3200 crowd.

GF 3 - Sunday evening. Media paying some okay attention to the team/games in between, ie you get the highlights, not just the score, on the tv news. Series level. 6000 show up.

GF 5 - Friday night. Kings 3rd or 4th story on TV sports news, 2 or 3 pages back in the newspapers, on the radio a lot, double page spread in Telegraph after brilliant game in Melbourne. Sense they might be about to collapse as well. Many long gone fans willing to give them a sentimental look in. Many there for a nailbiting decider after a great series. Perfect storm. 10,000 show up and it sells out.

[glockers]

Goorj really has become like Turner. Kings fans expect to see him on the sideline, yet if he left I don't think it would hurt attendance that much. Yes he gets a massive reaction because he led us to three championships while the club experienced a huge turnover in personnel.

I think to have a chance to draw crowds only three players are must keeps. Worthington is one, he has taken the role as leader and the crowd will remember him from the last few years.

The others are Draper and Victor. Keeping the same imports gives them a chance to build a profile. The fans love Draper and I can see him building a profile (not on the D Train, Williams or Trimmingham level but maybe on an Ice Burton type level).

We could also try to convince Heal to become a Brian assistant and come off the bench as a shooter. :P

The Heal factor would bring crowds.

Of course in two or three years I would love to see Nielsen return home. People do remember the rock star.

[lawsy82]

Goorj really has become like Turner. Kings fans expect to see him on the sideline, yet if he left I don't think it would hurt attendance that much. Yes he gets a massive reaction because he led us to three championships while the club experienced a huge turnover in personnel.

I think to have a chance to draw crowds only three players are must keeps. Worthington is one, he has taken the role as leader and the crowd will remember him from the last few years.

The others are Draper and Victor. Keeping the same imports gives them a chance to build a profile. The fans love Draper and I can see him building a profile (not on the D Train, Williams or Trimmingham level but maybe on an Ice Burton type level).

We could also try to convince Heal to become a Brian assistant and come off the bench as a shooter. :P

The Heal factor would bring crowds.

Of course in two or three years I would love to see Nielsen return home. People do remember the rock star.

yeah I agree with matty Nielson, would love him to replace Worthington if wortho leaves. Draper is a must to come back

[An5w3r]

Of course in two or three years I would love to see Nielsen return home. People do remember the rock star.

I've been told Nitro will play his last professional basketball in Perth, where his wife's from.

:(

[AngusH]

yeah I agree with matty Nielson, would love him to replace Worthington if wortho leaves. Draper is a must to come back

Don't think there is any real hope in hell of getting Nielson, nor much of a chance that Draper is still in the NBL next year. His youth+game should get him a better gig somewhere else.

IV I'd welcome back in a heartbeat, and he'd be a better chance than Draper of sticking in town I'd think. He really showed what he was capable of as the semis wore on, and I think he's still got more to show. Just please, for the love of god IV, don't dribble the basketball!! :D

[lawsy82]

yeah, i said IV is a little like Garnett before the season started. I feel, IV can get you consistently 16pts 8reb 1 blk a game. Draper with another season here will do him good. His jump shot improved as the year went on, and so did his decision making ie less turnovers.

Matty to perth???? nah i dont think so, its hard to see him leaving the big bucks for any club in the NBL.

[havrilla the gorilla]

Textbook inferiority complex with all the accompanying cliches.


It's cliches' actually. And you question my literacy? I know you spellcheck and use a thesaurus before each one of your posts but you dropped the ball on that one. I leave you with this Stumps:

How To Get A Life
It's never easy to overcome innate nerdity, a serious Internet addiction, or a hard-core computer gaming habit, but trying usually isn't as painful as kidney stones. Here's how:
Let go of the mouse.
Turn off the computer.
Play a game of solitaire with a real deck of cards.
Eat something other than potato chips
Fart without recording it and putting it up your Web page.
Get some sleep in bed rather than on your keyboard.
Next time you wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, don't stop on the way to make another Kings post
Open a window without turning your computer back on (yes, it is possible). Very gradually expose your eyes to increasingly bright light so as to avoid damage or permanent sun blindness.
When you feel prepared for a massive dose of non-CRT radiation, put on welding goggles and go outside.
If you see someone, say "Hi" to them instead of trying to make the modem connect sound.
Visit a friend that you haven't spoken to in years because they don't have an email address.
Have ".com" officially removed from behind your name.

[Stumps]

It's cliches' actually.
It is? What do they own?

And you question my literacy? I know you spellcheck and use a thesaurus before each one of your posts but you dropped the ball on that one.
Oh dear, you just keep making it worse.

[An5w3r]

Matty to perth???? nah i dont think so, its hard to see him leaving the big bucks for any club in the NBL.

Not yet.. but when he's done in Europe he ain't coming back to the Kings...

Mark my words... I hope I'm wrong.. but I've been told by someone who should know..

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="ash_24"][quote="Stumps"][quote="ash_24"]]See. That right there, is the sort of crap that makes you look like a patronising tool. You know what I meant, yet you break it down in which ever way you please, just so you can rip into someone.


You have more than one fan other than myself. Your Law/IT gig must keep you really busy. You are on here like 24/7! Good for you, glad to see you can translate that arrogance and blind confidence as you thunder away on these forums to make it work for you in the real world. This is obviously the only place you don't feel impotent. Noticed you were quiet on my get a life post(thought that might be a little too close to home) but came right back with the literacy sledge. You are so predictable :lol:

[DDFan]

Matty to perth???? nah i dont think so, its hard to see him leaving the big bucks for any club in the NBL.Isn't it possible that the Prodigal Sun might rise in the East & settle in the West?
Besides, what made Stiffy & Wheels walk away from those "big bucks" (& winning teams)? :?

[meg]

I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...

[havrilla the gorilla]

I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...


And you are? Sorry I forgot somebody asked you for your two cents.

[Cram]

I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...


And you are? Sorry I forgot somebody asked you for your two cents.

Yeah, imagine the nerve of someone giving their opinion on an internet forum. What do they think this is??

[Cussy]

I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...


And you are? Sorry I forgot somebody asked you for your two cents.
So you're happy to get down on your knees and swallow when someone supports you without asking, but when someone tells you that it's your turn to pipe down, they're just sticking their nose in?

[meg]

I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...


And you are? Sorry I forgot somebody asked you for your two cents.

On a public internet forum, my two cents is worth just as much as anyone's.

[AngusH]

And you are? Sorry I forgot somebody asked you for your two cents.

How about you take it to private PMs if you don't want others to get involved you twit, rather than carrying on in a Sydney Kings offseason thread and then insulting people who join in.

[Stumps]

Oh dear, we're dealing with somebody who thinks that "get a life" is the pinnacle of retorts.

[DDFan]

I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...
And you are? FFS you Simian HaveNot, meg's an absolute darling, & I'd say without fear of retribution, is loved by all long-term OzHos.
Life's a peace of cake, in my world.
Choke on it Hava.

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=meg]I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...


And you are? Sorry I forgot somebody asked you for your two cents.
So you're happy to get down on your knees and swallow when someone supports you without asking, but when someone tells you that it's your turn to pipe down, they're just sticking their nose in?[/quote:32dneld9]



Nice analogy, I don't need to how about your private life. You characters love to take people out of context don't you? Forget looking at it on a case by case basis, just throw in what you like as a general rule for all concerned. I said what I said to Ash tongue and cheek for a start because I mistakenly criticised him(see that I'm admitting I made a mistake, a first for you people no doubt) and the other time I was supporting the point of view.


And if you think that Stumps guy doesn't deserve all he cops after the crap he throws think again. He went personal first and I responded. Anybody else feel free to have a go at me regarding Stumps and you will be treated with the same contempt.

[havrilla the gorilla]

I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...
And you are? FFS you Simian HaveNot, meg's an absolute darling, & I'd say without fear of retribution, is loved by all long-term OzHos.
Life's a peace of cake, in my world.
Choke on it Hava.



Nice to meet you too champ. It's nice to know all the ignorant posters stick together without judging things post by post. No matter the author they must be right because they are a darling! Nice work.

I'm not here to make friends couldn't give a toss if I become the most hated poster. I enjoy talking Basketball and am a lifetime supporter of Basketball.

Sit on it and spin cakeboy 8)

[lawsy82]

[quote=meg]I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...
And you are? FFS you Simian HaveNot, meg's an absolute darling, & I'd say without fear of retribution, is loved by all long-term OzHos.
Life's a peace of cake, in my world.
Choke on it Hava.



Nice to meet you too champ. It's nice to know all the ignorant posters stick together without judging things post by post. No matter the author they must be right because they are a darling! Nice work.

I'm not here to make friends couldn't give a toss if I become the most hated poster. I enjoy talking Basketball and am a lifetime supporter of Basketball.

Sit on it and spin cakeboy 8)[/quote:q3mmfrsc]

yeah i agree. it seems around here,if ur not part of the "cool group" and you post what you really think you get belted down. Ive been around since the good old ABC forum days, wedgie,cousin of top cat, etc and i too love bball, but all anyone wants to do is put shit on ya

[meg]

It's nice to know all the ignorant posters stick together without judging things post by post.

One single post was what I DID judge you on, you dickhead! :lol:

I'm not here to make friends couldn't give a toss if I become the most hated poster. I enjoy talking Basketball and am a lifetime supporter of Basketball.



You're not the most hated poster...I think franny has that one sewn up!
I'm glad you like talking basketball...so do we, so if you'd refrain from abusing Stumps, and anyone else who disagrees with you, we can get on with it, can't we?

[havrilla the gorilla]

Oh dear, we're dealing with somebody who thinks that "get a life" is the pinnacle of retorts.



The pinnacle of retorts....wow you certainly have a way with words. I think that get a life post just became even more relevant

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=havrilla the gorilla] It's nice to know all the ignorant posters stick together without judging things post by post.

One single post was what I DID judge you on, you dickhead! :lol:

I'm not here to make friends couldn't give a toss if I become the most hated poster. I enjoy talking Basketball and am a lifetime supporter of Basketball.



You're not the most hated poster...I think franny has that one sewn up!
I'm glad you like talking basketball...so do we, so if you'd refrain from abusing Stumps, and anyone else who disagrees with you, we can get on with it, can't we?[/quote:2d94zxjh]


Sounds good. Thankyou for the most rational post yet. I don't feel I was abusing anybody first of all, and especially not for disagreeing with me. It would be very boring if everybody agreed, and it is not my goal to convert people to my way of thinking. As far as Stumps goes he more than gave as good as he got, and he is completely intolerant of others and their opinions, and tries to belittle them for doing so. I wasn't going to take that from somebody like that.

[Stumps]

You characters love to take people out of context don't you?
How exactly were you taken out of context?

Forget looking at it on a case by case basis, just throw in what you like as a general rule for all concerned.
As opposed to basing it on whether the person agrees with you or not? Something tells me the objective approach is fairer.

And if you think that Stumps guy doesn't deserve all he cops after the crap he throws think again.
That Stumps guy finds your crap hilarious. TC and meg know me well enough not to be worried that your illogical tantrums might upset me.

He went personal first and I responded.
Really? I seem to remember posting some speculation about my own possible mental state regarding the Kings next season, then you came out of nowhere and insulted me for it.

Anybody else feel free to have a go at me regarding Stumps and you will be treated with the same contempt.
Oh noes, you will all be told to get a life!

[Stumps]

The pinnacle of retorts....wow you certainly have a way with words. I think that get a life post just became even more relevant
So anybody with a superior vocabulary to you (ie everybody) must have no life?

Seriously mate, if you're going to keep trying to insult people, at least hold off until you get a bit better at it.

[Poida]

A Sydney Kings thread, full of shit.........who would've seen that one coming?

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote=havrilla the gorilla]You characters love to take people out of context don't you?
How exactly were you taken out of context?

Forget looking at it on a case by case basis, just throw in what you like as a general rule for all concerned.
As opposed to basing it on whether the person agrees with you or not? Something tells me the objective approach is fairer.

And if you think that Stumps guy doesn't deserve all he cops after the crap he throws think again.
That Stumps guy finds your crap hilarious. TC and meg know me well enough not to be worried that your illogical tantrums might upset me.

He went personal first and I responded.
Really? I seem to remember posting some speculation about my own possible mental state regarding the Kings next season, then you came out of nowhere and insulted me for it.

Anybody else feel free to have a go at me regarding Stumps and you will be treated with the same contempt.
Oh noes, you will all be told to get a life![/quote:vz16sr5k]



Have you noticed that you are the only person on this site who breaks down each post bit by bit to put in your own arrogant spin on things? That to me shows your character right there. Mate everything you have posted has been absolutely comical, I have enjoyed thinking how sad you are and what your pathetic life must hold. You try to get the upper hand with your so called intellect and dazzle us with as many words as possible. This site is for me to check in from time to time what is happening with the NBL around everything else in my life. Unfortunately for you this is your life, you post round the clock and can't wait to reply to try to feel better about yourself, and whatever else you do for the other 30 minutes in your day that you have spare when you are not posting takes a back seat. Keep thinking how good you are, call in your other internet "buddies" to back you up at my expense I really don't care.

You have shown with your ridiculous comments that you will move on if the Kings dispand and the NBL go under, excuse me for fighting to the bitter end to help the sport. Instead of pretending to be a pseudo intellectual I am actually out there promoting the game, helping to build courts in new areas of Brisbane and doing more than feeding my low self esteem by abusing others on my computer.

If you support the NBL and love Basketball I am not your enemy, and if you knew what I was trying to do you wouldn't dare give me shit.

[Cussy]

Keep thinking how good you are, call in your other internet "buddies" to back you up at my expense I really don't care.


I was actually sticking up for meg, not Stumps. I've heard he is an absolute gronk, especially after he spilled his guts about his feelings for his team.

[Stanley]

Instead of pretending to be a pseudo intellectual I am actually out there promoting the game, helping to build courts in new areas of Brisbane and doing more than feeding my low self esteem by abusing others on my computer.

If you support the NBL and love Basketball I am not your enemy, and if you knew what I was trying to do you wouldn't dare give me shit.

Bruce is that you?

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":2b5494yr]Keep thinking how good you are, call in your other internet "buddies" to back you up at my expense I really don't care.


I was actually sticking up for meg, not Stumps. I've heard he is an absolute gronk, especially after he spilled his guts about his feelings for his team.[/quote:2b5494yr]


No problems. My favourite game as a kid was Leisure Suit Larry and my favourite show was The Young Ones. Hope I nailed both references. If so you are ok in my book.

[metalslugsman]

Of course in two or three years I would love to see Nielsen return home. People do remember the rock star.

I've been told Nitro will play his last professional basketball in Perth, where his wife's from.

:(interesting that - I've seen him training at Lords a couple of times last year - must have been Euro off-season

[Stumps]

Apologies for the delay in my response, havrilla -- I've been playing with my daughter, making dinner with my wife and out at soccer training.

Let me try and explain this to you in a context that you might understand, so you can appreciate why I find it so amusing.

Let's say I'm a basketballer shooting around at the local courts. You're somebody walking by who thinks he knows a bit about hoops, and something about my technique -- or the way I'm carrying myself -- annoys you. You stop and start making fun of me with comments called out from the sideline.

After I've copped a bit of that, I stop and say "All right buddy, let's play a bit of one on one and see who should be talking". We play, and I start thrashing you. You don't respond well to this, and instead of wearing it gracefully, you step up the level of trash-talk, so I go further out of my way to make you look bad. I don't usually play like this -- it's only something I do to people whose mouths write cheques their skills can't cash.

Some of my mates who happen to have seen all this from the basket at the other end of the court wander over and start laughing at you. You accuse me of setting them up to do this, but really, they just happened to be around and saw you carrying on like a wanker.

At the end of it all, when you've lost 21-0, you take another angle to try to make yourself feel better. You start telling me I must have no life because according to you I'm always playing basketball, and nobody could shoot that well unless they never did anything but practise shooting. You taunt me about how I must apparently never have had a girlfriend. You ask me what my job is, and when I tell you, you ridicule it but don't offer your own profession in return. You say to me "Have you noticed you're the only one on this court who feels the need to dunk on other people? That to me shows your character right there." You keep trying to make out that I always go out of my way to humiliate other people on the basketball court, when most of the time I'm happy playing a friendly game of three-on-three and the only time I get over-competitive is when I'm provoked by a bit of attitude from an opponent. Everybody can see these are just pathetic excuses to try to cope with your frustration at your inability to compete.

I laugh it all off and go home to my family.

[Mr_Black]

[quote=meg]I thought he was quiet on the "get a life" post because it was a bit lame...
And you are? FFS you Simian HaveNot, meg's an absolute darling, & I'd say without fear of retribution, is loved by all long-term OzHos.
Life's a peace of cake, in my world.
Choke on it Hava.



Nice to meet you too champ. It's nice to know all the ignorant posters stick together without judging things post by post. No matter the author they must be right because they are a darling! Nice work.

I'm not here to make friends couldn't give a toss if I become the most hated poster. I enjoy talking Basketball and am a lifetime supporter of Basketball.

Sit on it and spin cakeboy 8)

yeah i agree. it seems around here,if ur not part of the "cool group" and you post what you really think you get belted down. Ive been around since the good old ABC forum days, wedgie,cousin of top cat, etc and i too love bball, but all anyone wants to do is put shit on ya[/quote:1xosamn1]


Im far from "part of the cool group" and i still think you can both be tools.

Rule of thumb, as you both claim to be "lifelong" basketball fans, keep it on topic and you should avoid any entanglements.

[Mr_Black]

A Sydney Kings thread, full of shit.........who would've seen that one coming?

:lol:

[havrilla the gorilla]

Apologies for the delay in my response, havrilla -- I've been playing with my daughter, making dinner with my wife and out at soccer training.

Let me try and explain this to you in a context that you might understand, so you can appreciate why I find it so amusing.

Let's say I'm a basketballer shooting around at the local courts. You're somebody walking by who thinks he knows a bit about hoops, and something about my technique -- or the way I'm carrying myself -- annoys you. You stop and start making fun of me with comments called out from the sideline.

After I've copped a bit of that, I stop and say "All right buddy, let's play a bit of one on one and see who should be talking". We play, and I start thrashing you. You don't respond well to this, and instead of wearing it gracefully, you step up the level of trash-talk, so I go further out of my way to make you look bad. I don't usually play like this -- it's only something I do to people whose mouths write cheques their skills can't cash.

Some of my mates who happen to have seen all this from the basket at the other end of the court wander over and start laughing at you. You accuse me of setting them up to do this, but really, they just happened to be around and saw you carrying on like a wanker.

At the end of it all, when you've lost 21-0, you take another angle to try to make yourself feel better. You start telling me I must have no life because according to you I'm always playing basketball, and nobody could shoot that well unless they never did anything but practise shooting. You taunt me about how I must apparently never have had a girlfriend. You ask me what my job is, and when I tell you, you ridicule it but don't offer your own profession in return. You say to me "Have you noticed you're the only one on this court who feels the need to dunk on other people? That to me shows your character right there." You keep trying to make out that I always go out of my way to humiliate other people on the basketball court, when most of the time I'm happy playing a friendly game of three-on-three and the only time I get over-competitive is when I'm provoked by a bit of attitude from an opponent. Everybody can see these are just pathetic excuses to try to cope with your frustration at your inability to compete.

I laugh it all off and go home to my family.



You have saved the best for last. I will leave it at that :lol: :lol: :lol:

[phill]

Apologies for the delay in my response, havrilla -- I've been playing with my daughter, making dinner with my wife and out at soccer training.

Let me try and explain this to you in a context that you might understand, so you can appreciate why I find it so amusing.

Let's say I'm a basketballer shooting around at the local courts. You're somebody walking by who thinks he knows a bit about hoops, and something about my technique -- or the way I'm carrying myself -- annoys you. You stop and start making fun of me with comments called out from the sideline.

After I've copped a bit of that, I stop and say "All right buddy, let's play a bit of one on one and see who should be talking". We play, and I start thrashing you. You don't respond well to this, and instead of wearing it gracefully, you step up the level of trash-talk, so I go further out of my way to make you look bad. I don't usually play like this -- it's only something I do to people whose mouths write cheques their skills can't cash.

Some of my mates who happen to have seen all this from the basket at the other end of the court wander over and start laughing at you. You accuse me of setting them up to do this, but really, they just happened to be around and saw you carrying on like a wanker.

At the end of it all, when you've lost 21-0, you take another angle to try to make yourself feel better. You start telling me I must have no life because according to you I'm always playing basketball, and nobody could shoot that well unless they never did anything but practise shooting. You taunt me about how I must apparently never have had a girlfriend. You ask me what my job is, and when I tell you, you ridicule it but don't offer your own profession in return. You say to me "Have you noticed you're the only one on this court who feels the need to dunk on other people? That to me shows your character right there." You keep trying to make out that I always go out of my way to humiliate other people on the basketball court, when most of the time I'm happy playing a friendly game of three-on-three and the only time I get over-competitive is when I'm provoked by a bit of attitude from an opponent. Everybody can see these are just pathetic excuses to try to cope with your frustration at your inability to compete.

I laugh it all off and go home to my family.

Stumps, you should start writing childrens books. Mate that some story you've just written :lol:

[Mr T]

I agree with Mr Black. Your both equally annoying when doing this and it just a matter of going through the motions until Stumps defeats him. Plus Stumps has a history of actually bringing positive things to the table. Monkey boy has got a while to go yet.

The basketball analogy whilst being spot on isn't. It's widely recognised that its more advantageous to be good at basketball then posting on a forum.

Back to the original question of loyalty.

If you had a family relative playing for Brisbane Gorilla and they moved to Sydney. Sydney play Brissy, who do you support?

Who's playing in the team does matter. The extent of it depends of your own personality.

[Stumps]

The basketball analogy whilst being spot on isn't. It's widely recognised that its more advantageous to be good at basketball then posting on a forum.
Something tells me the actual difference between me and havrilla is a little more than the ability to "post on a forum". Some might say it's much more advantageous to be intelligent than good at basketball. I certainly know which one I'd prefer.

[Glenn]

Any chance of this kiddie fight been taken elsewhere?

[stellation]

I saw the number of pages to the thread and though "cool, there must be some info already". :lol:

[DICKO]

Some might say it's much more advantageous to be intelligent than good at basketball. I certainly know which one I'd prefer.

Like you have the option of either :)

[Glenn]

I saw the number of pages to the thread and though "cool, there must be some info already". :lol:

Since when has a Kings thread been on topic, longer than about 2 pages. :wink:

[Daevo]

Some might say it's much more advantageous to be intelligent than good at basketball.
A vast number of NBA players tend to prove the contrary :wink:

[metalslugsman]

Shouldn't the team be bigger than any individual?
It's not about AN individual. It's about ALL the individuals. Define for me what the "team" is, if it's not the collective spirit of the guys busting their guts for its success. Read Earnie's post about team vs club -- as always, he's totally nailed what I'm thinking. I did read Earnie's post - that is why I posted. I disagree - I think you support your team/club no matter what. Look at how many changes the Hawks have under gone adnd how badly they have performed, yet you don't see their fans on here suggesting that the changes in personel are going to cause them to stop supporting the team. Personally I don't care who is playing for the Wildcats - I support the team. It's different to when i started supporting them and so am i but i am still a fan

[quote="metalslugsman]Questioning your ability to support your team because the coach leaves or some of the players leave is terrible and only supports the suggestion that Kings fans are fickle bandwaggoners.
Yeah, that's totally me. Must be tough for you Wildcats fans with your 137 consecutive appearances in the playoffs, or whatever it is -- I bet you really empathise with what it was like to be a Kings fan in the 90s.[/quote][/quote]Stumps, don't take it as a personal insult - it was not meant as a specific poke to any individual - more as a collective poke to all the Kings fans to get behind your team. It is the decision of every individual Kings fan to continue to support the team that collectively will keep the team going and successful. Yes, Goorjian has done a lot for the club in turning it around, but if the club folds when he leaves, then nothing has been achieved and the Kings may as well just have purchased a trophy and not bothered playing at all. The club has to commit to build on any and all success for the future. Prior to 1987 the Wildcats had never made the finals, but the addition of Cal, JC & Tiny turned the team around - particularly the addition of Mr Promotion - Cal Bruton. However, the club did not rest on this and has had a period of sustained success.

Make no mistake, I do believe that there are a lot of committed fans who are just questioning the future who will still support the team, but if this does seriously change your club allegiances (on personnel changes), then you are a fickle fan

On your point about sustained success - I am a Western Force fan. We didnt win once in our first season, but i still re-newed my membership. We one a few games and lost a few last season, but i still renewed my membership. Winning or losing doesnt change my passion or support for the team - I am a committed fan. I rejoice or lament the results; I am critical of the players when they do dumb things, but I still support the team; if they sack John Mitchell, the public face of the Western FOrce, who has done 'Goorj-like' things for rugby in Perth, I will still passionately support the team

Why would someone buy the team and keep it going and spend money on it if even diehard fans posting on these boards are questioning their ability to support the team?
Exactly, why would they? That was my point. If Goorjian leaves and takes everybody with him, they may as well throw the licence in the bin, because nobody with half a brain would buy it.[/quote]If that is the case then they may as well throw the license in the bin irrespective of whether Goorjian stays - the club is of no value in any way and your posts are suggesting that you see no real value in the club either. It also means that Sydney neither requires nor deserves a second team. Leave the Razors there, people are not questioning their value without certain individuals or groups of individuals. However, the Kings is just a 'cult of personality' and the followers of the team will follow Captain Goorjian to wherever he ends up

[isaac]

Havrilla, have you been posting on my site as "duh!", arguing about Anstey against Fezlington? (If so, the argument-ending comeback attempt is the giveaway here.)

[metalslugsman]

Havrilla - Stumps is not the only poster who breaks down other posts and attempts to have logical arguments; many do. Stop reacting emotionally to him and start reading his posts objectively. I guarantee you that if you are ever fortunate enough to meet Stumps in person, you will be as embarrassed as I was when I met him for reacting emotionally to his posts.

and if you don't like that suggestion you can fuck off

PS: i liked the basketball analogy Stumps

[DDFan]

Havrilla, have you been posting on my site as "duh!", arguing about Anstey against Fezlington? (If so, the argument-ending comeback attempt is the giveaway here.)Havrilla, stick with hoops.com. Knowledgeable fans, committed to raising the bar, the balls is your hands.
Enjoy. :P

[Stumps]

Some might say it's much more advantageous to be intelligent than good at basketball.
A vast number of NBA players tend to prove the contrary :wink:
I think the top 400 minds in the world are probably doing pretty well for themselves too :P

[DDFan]

Some might say it's much more advantageous to be intelligent than good at basketball.
A vast number of NBA players tend to prove the contrary :wink:
I think the top 400 minds in the world are probably doing pretty well for themselves too :PThose other 399, shouldn't figure in a meaningful world, but let me assure you, I'm do'n OK. :P :wink:

[havrilla the gorilla]

Havrilla, have you been posting on my site as "duh!", arguing about Anstey against Fezlington? (If so, the argument-ending comeback attempt is the giveaway here.)


Nope. Was that blunt enough for you?

[havrilla the gorilla]

Havrilla - Stumps is not the only poster who breaks down other posts and attempts to have logical arguments; many do. Stop reacting emotionally to him and start reading his posts objectively. I guarantee you that if you are ever fortunate enough to meet Stumps in person, you will be as embarrassed as I was when I met him for reacting emotionally to his posts.

and if you don't like that suggestion you can (Extremely Naughty Word!) off

PS: i liked the basketball analogy Stumps


Mate if you think those arguments were logical you can f*** off

[gangsta boo]

I think its about time you fucked off out of this thread

[Stumps]

You have to laugh when people redefine "logical" to mean "anything I personally agree with".

[curious]

NBL Board meeting tommorrow. Hopefully something may come out of that. No one seems to know whats going on.

[metalslugsman]

You have to laugh when people redefine "logical" to mean "anything I personally agree with".are you referring to me?

[Mr_Black]

Havrilla, have you been posting on my site as "duh!", arguing about Anstey against Fezlington? (If so, the argument-ending comeback attempt is the giveaway here.)Havrilla, stick with hoops.com. Knowledgeable fans, committed to raising the bar, the balls is your hands.
Enjoy. :P

You forgot to mention the incredible South Australian bias :)

[Stumps]

You have to laugh when people redefine "logical" to mean "anything I personally agree with".are you referring to me?
No, of course not, I'm referred to the moron who profanely objected to your entirely appropriate use of the word.

[metalslugsman]

You have to laugh when people redefine "logical" to mean "anything I personally agree with".are you referring to me?
No, of course not, I'm referred to the moron who profanely objected to your entirely appropriate use of the word.ok. I wont send you death threats then :wink:

[Mr T]

Something tells me the actual difference between me and havrilla is a little more than the ability to "post on a forum".

Blind freddy can see that.


Some might say it's much more advantageous to be intelligent than good at basketball.

Agreed. You have to be absolutely brilliant at basketball to make a decent living from it. You really only need to be semi-intelligent to do well at job to make a living.


I certainly know which one I'd prefer.

With ya again matey.

[havrilla the gorilla]

You have to laugh when people redefine "logical" to mean "anything I personally agree with".


And laugh even harder when certain people take the term narrow- minded to a whole new level and constantly talk in semantics. Can't wait for you to twist my words on your next post and of course add the "I'm never wrong attitude" which is your signature.

PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D

[Stumps]

I'm constantly stunned by the simple language you define as "semantics". Do you get your vocabulary from Dr Seuss?

[Cussy]

PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.

[havrilla the gorilla]

I'm constantly stunned by the simple language you define as "semantics". Do you get your vocabulary from Dr Seuss?


No but I think your comprehension skills are up there with your two year old if you think that doesn't sum you up nicely. Dr.Seuss? Oh yeah... now I realise how you got through university.

Loved the court analogy with Tim Johnston too :wink:

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":27i46s5n]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:27i46s5n]


And you would be a fine judge of one being a dick with your stupid sarcasm and one sentence posts that really add something to this site.

[lawsy82]

3 pages of this thread, is u 2 tossers being tough towards each other through a bloody keyboard...Take ya shit elsewhere

[Stumps]

No but I think your comprehension skills are up there with your two year old
My two-year-old? What comprehension skills led you to that conclusion?

Oh yeah... now I realise how you got through university.
By being about fifty times smarter than you (give or take).

[Stumps]

[quote="The Customer":1dgkyayl][quote="havrilla the gorilla":1dgkyayl]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:1dgkyayl]
And you would be a fine judge of one being a dick with your stupid sarcasm and one sentence posts that really add something to this site.[/quote:1dgkyayl]
The people have spoken (http://www.ozhoopsboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=527688#527688), and they've voted in favour of The Customer's "stupid sarcasm and one sentence posts".

[havrilla the gorilla]

3 pages of this thread, is u 2 tossers being tough towards each other through a bloody keyboard...Take ya shit elsewhere


I am happy to take it elsewhere, particualrly at a basketball venue where I can prove Stumps is the ultimate arm chair sportsfan, and allow him to see how intelligent he really is by insulting me in person.

[Da Houndawg #55]

And there we have it...

Havrilla the Gorilla beating his chest...

[Cussy]

3 pages of this thread, is u 2 tossers being tough towards each other through a bloody keyboard...Take ya shit elsewhere


I am happy to take it elsewhere, particualrly at a basketball venue where I can prove Stumps is the ultimate arm chair sportsfan, and allow him to see how intelligent he really is by insulting me in person.

First the "no life" accusation, then comes the "everyone who disagrees with me is as dumb as <insert username>", and now the challenge to a fight. There is the triumvirate of toolishness!

[Stumps]

Yes, the result of a pick-up basketball game will certainly prove beyond a shadow of a doubt which one of us is more intelligent than the other.

[An5w3r]

I don't think it's important who's a better palyer or has a higher IQ, nor do I believe whoever has the last word has won anything.

I do however hope someone can throw in some information or an opinion on the Kings 08/09 season in their next post though..

[Stumps]

Everybody is too scared of being sued by Tim Johnston.

[CGG]

Certainly an interesting method to use to develop interpersonal realionships within your team. :shock: So I take it that nobody with links within the organisation is going to be game enough to post actual information here in case it gets traced back? How are we supposed to continue in the off season if teams bunker down like that?

[kc4mvp]

I would suggest the Coach's and the Team's egos would be hard to manage at the best of time, with out upsetting them.

[metalslugsman]

You have to laugh when people redefine "logical" to mean "anything I personally agree with".


And laugh even harder when certain people take the term narrow- minded to a whole new level and constantly talk in semantics. Can't wait for you to twist my words on your next post and of course add the "I'm never wrong attitude" which is your signature.

PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :DOk, so if i disagree with you I'm an idiot who is full of myself, and if i agree with Stumps I am a cretin who jumps on the bandwagon and you are always right.

you sound like my wife during an argument

Actually on further reflection and after reading the offer of a fight for Stumps, I'm guessing you are a pimply 16 year old.

[havrilla the gorilla]

You have to laugh when people redefine "logical" to mean "anything I personally agree with".


And laugh even harder when certain people take the term narrow- minded to a whole new level and constantly talk in semantics. Can't wait for you to twist my words on your next post and of course add the "I'm never wrong attitude" which is your signature.

PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :DOk, so if i disagree with you I'm an idiot who is full of myself, and if i agree with Stumps I am a cretin who jumps on the bandwagon and you are always right.

you sound like my wife during an argument

Actually on further reflection and after reading the offer of a fight for Stumps, I'm guessing you are a pimply 16 year old.

You don't need further reflection you are already in enough pain. Another arsehole putting his own spin on my comments. Throw your fantastic insight at Stumps as well before you jump in. People might think you are ignorant otherwise.

[havrilla the gorilla]

Yes, the result of a pick-up basketball game will certainly prove beyond a shadow of a doubt which one of us is more intelligent than the other.

Classic example of what I am dealing with here. Your own twisted point of view. And I'm a moron? Did I say fight? I said what might happen if you insult me in person. I might laugh and realise I shouldn't get offended by a cripple. Because you are such an arsehole and have acted like one since day one, you assume I want to punch you out. This might mean you know deep down that you crossed the line and your behavior warrants a black eye.


Who said a game of pickup was an intelligence test? Maybe your IQ is the thing you are most proud of. Maybe my athletic ability is that for me. The fact social soccer is the height of your prowess leads me to believe it is a sore point for you, and you were picked on at school for being the "nerd"

I have not shared my personal information with you but in your head I am an iliterate moron. I will let you know then I have a University Degree, I'm full-time employed and also run a PT business and probably make more money than you do. The fact you have time to post so much tells me you're a lousy lawyer(if at all) and probably in the IT field only.

So Stumps I'm a moron who graduated University, has more than one property, makes good money, holds athletic records and plays basketball. I'm not losing sleep over your ridiculous crap or sledging my intelligence. If that's dum then guilty as charged! 8)

[Cussy]

So Stumps I'm a moron who graduated University, has more than one property, makes good money, holds athletic records and plays basketball. I'm not losing sleep over your ridiculous crap or sledging my intelligence. If that's dumb then guilty as charged! 8)

That was!

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":robjxgr6]
So Stumps I'm a moron who graduated University, has more than one property, makes good money, holds athletic records and plays basketball. I'm not losing sleep over your ridiculous crap or sledging my intelligence. If that's dumb then guilty as charged! 8)

That was![/quote:robjxgr6]


Like another one of your awesome posts!!!!! Two words this time instead of one....I'm impressed :P

[metalslugsman]

Havrilla - you do express yourself well with good grammar and reasonable spelling so you are obviously not dumb. However, 4 paragraphs of self-promotion does suggest you are insecure. Telling everyone about your qualification, how many houses you own and what you earn also suggests you are immature.

You actually post some reasonable stuff and appear to be a knowledgeable and passionate fan - something basketball needs. Don't do yourself the disservice of trolling Stumps, who is a decent guy and also a passionate fan of the game. No one else on here is believing your arguments and the only person who comes out as less of a valuable individual is you.

[BlowJoggs]

I'm 27, in the process of purchasing my 2nd property, play A grade basketball (missed out on reps but hey I'm 165cms) have gigantic balls, a pretty good sword and you know what? I wouldn't have been able to do any of that without the support of ACN and Donald Trump.

[havrilla the gorilla]

Havrilla - you do express yourself well with good grammar and reasonable spelling so you are obviously not dumb. However, 4 paragraphs of self-promotion does suggest you are insecure. Telling everyone about your qualification, how many houses you own and what you earn also suggests you are immature.

You actually post some reasonable stuff and appear to be a knowledgeable and passionate fan - something basketball needs. Don't do yourself the disservice of trolling Stumps, who is a decent guy and also a passionate fan of the game. No one else on here is believing your arguments and the only person who comes out as less of a valuable individual is you.


Mate fair call. He gave me his resume' so I returned the favour. I don't feel insecure and that is one of the only times I have talked myself up to other people. I know he is an IT/Lawyer, plays soccer, has a two year old(in wedlock) so I was fighting fire with fire. He knew nothing of my personal life until that post. I do feel bad I sunk to his level. In hindsight I should have stopped "biting" 3 pages ago. Thanks for being fair, but I find it very, very difficult to believe he is a good guy in the flesh.

[metalslugsman]

Havrilla - you do express yourself well with good grammar and reasonable spelling so you are obviously not dumb. However, 4 paragraphs of self-promotion does suggest you are insecure. Telling everyone about your qualification, how many houses you own and what you earn also suggests you are immature.

You actually post some reasonable stuff and appear to be a knowledgeable and passionate fan - something basketball needs. Don't do yourself the disservice of trolling Stumps, who is a decent guy and also a passionate fan of the game. No one else on here is believing your arguments and the only person who comes out as less of a valuable individual is you.
Mate fair call. He gave me his resume' so I returned the favour. I don't feel insecure and that is one of the only times I have talked myself up to other people. I know he is an IT/Lawyer, plays soccer, has a two year old(in wedlock) so I was fighting fire with fire. He knew nothing of my personal life until that post. I do feel bad I sunk to his level. In hindsight I should have stopped "biting" 3 pages ago. Thanks for being fair, but I find it very, very difficult to believe he is a good guy in the flesh.Anyone on here who has met Stumps will back me up, and I think you can work that out for yourself, given the amount of support he has received in answering back to you. I bit at Stumps when i first came on to OZHoops too - not as much as you though - and i was quite embarrassed when i had been on here a bit longer, and even more so when i met him in the flesh at a Kings game.

A word of advice, Stumps loves arguing, so if you give him the opportunity he will keep arguing back. I don't think you 'sunk to his level' - if you look at his posts he doesn't tend to do that, but you reacted to his pulling your points apart and wanted to argue. Arguing doesn't necessarily mean your being belittled and it is really easy to take things the wrong way.

Fire up by all means, but expect other OzHos to fire back, and take it like a man

[havrilla the gorilla]

Havrilla - you do express yourself well with good grammar and reasonable spelling so you are obviously not dumb. However, 4 paragraphs of self-promotion does suggest you are insecure. Telling everyone about your qualification, how many houses you own and what you earn also suggests you are immature.

You actually post some reasonable stuff and appear to be a knowledgeable and passionate fan - something basketball needs. Don't do yourself the disservice of trolling Stumps, who is a decent guy and also a passionate fan of the game. No one else on here is believing your arguments and the only person who comes out as less of a valuable individual is you.
Mate fair call. He gave me his resume' so I returned the favour. I don't feel insecure and that is one of the only times I have talked myself up to other people. I know he is an IT/Lawyer, plays soccer, has a two year old(in wedlock) so I was fighting fire with fire. He knew nothing of my personal life until that post. I do feel bad I sunk to his level. In hindsight I should have stopped "biting" 3 pages ago. Thanks for being fair, but I find it very, very difficult to believe he is a good guy in the flesh.Anyone on here who has met Stumps will back me up, and I think you can work that out for yourself, given the amount of support he has received in answering back to you. I bit at Stumps when i first came on to OZHoops too - not as much as you though - and i was quite embarrassed when i had been on here a bit longer, and even more so when i met him in the flesh at a Kings game.

A word of advice, Stumps loves arguing, so if you give him the opportunity he will keep arguing back. I don't think you 'sunk to his level' - if you look at his posts he doesn't tend to do that, but you reacted to his pulling your points apart and wanted to argue. Arguing doesn't necessarily mean your being belittled and it is really easy to take things the wrong way.

Fire up by all means, but expect other OzHos to fire back, and take it like a man

If you go back, there is actually a post I wrote explaining that this has gotten out of control and to we should try and keep it based on the facts. I will admit I have carried on as well, but only after he went way over the top and crossed the line by going way to far with this. I get the impression you think I am at fault, which is dissapointing.

He needs to learn that insulting other people and trying to come across with superior intelligence doesn't make his argument more valid. By saying he loves to argue and that is "him" sounds like you are condoning his pig headedness. The fact other OzHos back him up also doesn't make him right,(or worry me in the slightest) it just means you have a little network of buddies who stick together. At least 2 people have come to my defence also condeming him, so he isn't perfect. This is of course my point of view, like your last post was yours. Just be tolerant of it, unlike Stumps.

If

[Daevo]

I hate to drag this back onto the topic of the Kings but on 2GB news tonight they reported that Kings staff & players have been threatened with legal action of they make any public comment on the future of the club.

It doesn't sound like negotiations this week went well :?

[Stumps]

Classic example of what I am dealing with here. Your own twisted point of view. And I'm a moron? Did I say fight?
Where did I say or even imply fight? I actually gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were talking about a game, which is blatantly obvious from my response. You really have to stop imagining things.

I said what might happen if you insult me in person. I might laugh and realise I shouldn't get offended by a cripple. Because you are such an arsehole and have acted like one since day one, you assume I want to punch you out. This might mean you know deep down that you crossed the line and your behavior warrants a black eye.
More self-infulgent fantasy. Do you actually believe all this?

Who said a game of pickup was an intelligence test? Maybe your IQ is the thing you are most proud of. Maybe my athletic ability is that for me.
Maybe it is. In that case I would suggest sticking to challenging people at athletic pursuits and not embarrassing yourself fighting out of your league in intellectual ones.

The fact social soccer is the height of your prowess
The fact? Since when? Do you ever stop imagining things?

leads me to believe it is a sore point for you, and you were picked on at school for being the "nerd"
Actually, at my school all-rounders like myself were respected. Somebody like yourself, on the other hand ...

I have not shared my personal information with you but in your head I am an iliterate moron.
I judge on what I see, not on what people boast about.

I will let you know then I have a University Degree, I'm full-time employed and also run a PT business and probably make more money than you do.
Again with the uninformed boasting! What are you trying to prove?

The fact you have time to post so much tells me you're a lousy lawyer(if at all) and probably in the IT field only.
Actually, it should tell you that I'm smart enough to very quickly churn out long tracts of text.

So Stumps I'm a moron who graduated University, has more than one property, makes good money, holds athletic records and plays basketball. I'm not losing sleep over your ridiculous crap or sledging my intelligence. If that's dum then guilty as charged! 8)
If you're not losing sleep, why has my response to your original unprovoked insult caused you to imagine whole bunches of things about me and embarrass yourself every few hours with nonsensical replies, sad boasts and irrelevant challenges?

[Stumps]

Mate fair call. He gave me his resume' so I returned the favour.
Mate, do you not recall asking me for it, presumably with the sum of insulting me over it (as you then did)? It's not like I'm going around boasting about my personal life. I just did you the courtesy of answering a direct question.

has a two year old(in wedlock)
Where did you get this from? I have a one-month old.

He knew nothing of my personal life until that post.
I didn't need to, and I don't now either. I judge what people say on here, and that's it.

[havrilla the gorilla]

Actually, at my school all-rounders like myself were respected. Somebody like yourself, on the other hand ...

Now who's been presumptious? You really are a hypocrite hence my constant laughter at your expense.

I judge on what I see, not on what people boast about.

You do plenty of both - judging and boasting. PS - You have never seen me...oh your talking about a forum. Way to get to know someone!

Again with the uninformed boasting! What are you trying to prove

You try to prove plenty boasting about your "alleged" IQ. I will send you a payslip and a copy of my degree dickhead. Some cream with that humble pie?

your original unprovoked insult caused you to imagine whole bunches of things about me and embarrass yourself every few hours with nonsensical replies, sad boasts and irrelevant challenges?

That makes two of us....or are you that blind? They say that about love, and you are very clearly in love with yourself. I can recall the slander of my intelligence and the praise of your own while still discussing basketball.

You needed two posts to impart another witty retort? You really are sad. :lol:

[gangsta boo]

I think this needs to be locked and a new thread begun - and lets ban fuckwits from posting in it

[havrilla the gorilla]

Mate I'm done, the problem is that if IQ boy doesn't get the last word he will feel inferior.


It is a very sad situation with the Kings, the thing that worries me(especially with a potential Fox deal) is that if Sydney go under the rest of the league will follow suit. Much of what goes on at Foxtel is sensitive to the Sydney market, hence why I think the broadcast deal is under scrutiny. Sydney has always been a key market for the NBL.

I understand where Johnson is coming from, but I don't like his stance because it makes him look shifty and gives the insinuation that things were done below board at the Kings, which is a terrible example for potential buyers. He should be promoting the positives(especially since he says he loved the club) and if a player/coach spoke publicly I think he could defend himself with honour and nobody would have talked the less of him for it, with all the trouble the league is in.

I am sympathetic to all concerned, and hope the Kings can bounce back.

[Stumps]

You do plenty of both - judging and boasting. PS - You have never seen me...oh your talking about a forum. Way to get to know someone!
Mate, I'm not trying to say you're poor, or unemployed, or a failure, or a bad person. Judging by all your boasting in these regards, you seem to think that I am. The only things I've attacked are your ability to argue and your literacy skills. These judgments were based upon your arguing as demonstrated on this forum, and your comprehension as demonstrated on this forum. Seeing you wouldn't really help me in either of those regards.

You try to prove plenty boasting about your "alleged" IQ.
Really? When?

I will send you a payslip and a copy of my degree dickhead. Some cream with that humble pie?
See what I mean? You obviously don't actually understand what's going on here. You seem to think I both deny and care that you have these things. I don't, because they are irrelevant. You didn't understand why people were making fun of you when you tried to settle this by challenging me to a basketball game, and now you're just repeating the same mistake.

You needed two posts to impart another witty retort? You really are sad. :lol:
Um, I was replying to two posts ... seriously dude, give it a break, you're trying SO hard to keep up and score petty points (that "cliches' [sic]" debacle was a prime example) but you're just making it worse for yourself. Accept that you had an unprovoked go at me, I fought back, and unfortunately you didn't deal very well with somebody giving you back as good as (or rather, significantly better than) they get. While you're crapping on about how you couldn't possibly except that I'm a decent person or whatever other delusions you're suffering, you should be looking back and realising that you're actually just proving the few allegations I levelled at you (certainly not all this other crap you've imagined) entirely correct.

[havrilla the gorilla]

As I said last post I was happy to leave it there ages ago. You are the one who is like a dog with a bone and keeps flogging the dead horse with your crap. If it was so blatantly obvious my arguing and comprehension were a liability for me I think other people instead of you would have said something before you did. You have done that to death.

Let me tell you that you have not endeared yourself to anybody with your behavior either, and I actually tried to apologise for calling you a gronk ages ago.(my mistake) I would fall off my chair if you extended me the same courtesy. All you have proved is that you think you are always right, and are completely arrogant and intolerant of other peoples posts.

You have manipulated many of my posts to suit yourself, and totally misunderstood a lot of where I was coming from. It all started here:

What exactly is your point? Is 1991 in "this decade"? Are you an imbecile?

You ask a question(retorically) and answer with a statement and call me a name. I could explain myself, and you might still disagree but you never gave me the chance. Because I see/believe in a point that you can't, that makes me an imbecile in your eyes. That is why you are arrogant and narrow-minded.

ash_24 wrote:
So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on.


[b]ash_24 wrote:
From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

ash_24 wrote:
See. That right there, is the sort of crap that makes you look like a patronising tool. You know what I meant, yet you break it down in which ever way you please, just so you can rip into someone.
Yep, your fans came out of the woodwork to support you, but I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Nobody else insulted my intelligence, but more than one person thinks you patronise. You can have the last word with the next reply. But I am done. :roll:

[Stumps]

Here you go again -- you're the one carrying on about fans, not me. I don't have "fans", nor have I ever claimed to. You're the only one who tried to invent that as a motivation for the comments that were negative towards you. It would be like me calling ash_24 a fan of yours.

Some final debating tips for you in future, considering this is going around in circles and you're just confusing yourself:
- make sure you remember the difference between what the other person has actually said, and what you've imagined they've said or what you yourself have said, so that you don't go accidentally rebutting your own point or your imagination;
- try to remember that who owns the most properties, who would win a basketball game or who is most willing to show their payslip has no bearing whatsoever on the vast majority of discussions -- they are just ego-mollifying distractions for the insecure; and
- regularly go back to the start of the argument and refresh your memory, so you don't replace actual reality with your own fantasy version of what happened.

If you do that in future, you'll be a lot better off.

[Cussy]

ash_24 wrote:
So many times, it would nice if you just shut the (Extremely Naughty Word!) up, but you keep going on and on and on.


ash_24 wrote:
From what I read, you should really take a look in the mirror if think that you have the right to call the behaviour of others embarrassing....

ash_24 wrote:
See. That right there, is the sort of crap that makes you look like a patronising tool. You know what I meant, yet you break it down in which ever way you please, just so you can rip into someone.
Yep, your fans came out of the woodwork to support you, but I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Nobody else insulted my intelligence, but more than one person thinks you patronise. You can have the last word with the next reply. But I am done. :roll:
Ok, so those three people don't like the way Stumps is behaving, but surely there are some that have no issue with his debating prowess.

[havrilla the gorilla]

you're just confusing yourself - THE PUT DOWN

make sure you remember the difference between what the other person has actually said, and what you've imagined they've said or what you yourself have said, so that you don't go accidentally rebutting your own point or your imagination - THE HYPOCRITE

try to remember that who owns the most properties, who would win a basketball game or who is most willing to show their payslip has no bearing whatsoever on the vast majority of discussions -- they are just ego-mollifying distractions for the insecure; ATTRIBUTES OF AN IMBECILE? THAT WAS THE POINT YOU MISSED

regularly go back to the start of the argument and refresh your memory, so you don't replace actual reality with your own fantasy version of what happened. THE ARROGANCE

Well done mate. Not a hint of Self-Analysis, Humility or Compromise with the last 5 pages of drival. Spoken like a true bigot.

[fan since the old snakepit]

Stumps and magilla. Why dont you take your little game here so I can again start enjoying the Kings demise. :lol:

http://www.debateforums.net/vb/

[Cussy]

[quote="The Customer":2yg0ukj6][quote="havrilla the gorilla":2yg0ukj6]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:2yg0ukj6]


And you would be a fine judge of one being a dick with your stupid sarcasm and one sentence posts that really add something to this site.[/quote:2yg0ukj6]
Weren't you the one who was pissing all over the place about people not being able to judge each post/discussion on it's own merit? I reckon you were being a dick and told you so, so you claim my entire existence here is pointless? Nice contradiction, Magilla.

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":3o98opy8][quote="The Customer":3o98opy8][quote="havrilla the gorilla":3o98opy8]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:3o98opy8]


And you would be a fine judge of one being a dick with your stupid sarcasm and one sentence posts that really add something to this site.[/quote:3o98opy8]
Weren't you the one who was pissing all over the place about people not being able to judge each post/discussion on it's own merit? I reckon you were being a dick and told you so, so you claim my entire existence here is pointless? Nice contradiction, Magilla.[/quote:3o98opy8]

That would be Havrilla...don't let Stumps see that he's crazy about the correct use of the English language. :P

[xscool]

FFS!!! Stick to the topic! I'm sick of these biatches arguing!

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":167md3uj][quote="The Customer":167md3uj][quote="havrilla the gorilla":167md3uj]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:167md3uj]


And you would be a fine judge of one being a dick with your stupid sarcasm and one sentence posts that really add something to this site.[/quote:167md3uj]
Weren't you the one who was pissing all over the place about people not being able to judge each post/discussion on it's own merit? I reckon you were being a dick and told you so, so you claim my entire existence here is pointless? Nice contradiction, Magilla.[/quote:167md3uj]


You like making references to that part of the male anatomy don't you? Last time I was on my knees, now I'm urinating. You don't carry a ruler around by any chance? :wink:

[angel]

Could we please get back to the business on the thread? Does anyone know what is happening with Goorj or any of the players?

From last Sunday I got the following: Sav will be staying, Mike W is be to be the new CEO BUT he wont be investing just bringing in investors, most players want to be with Goorj, i don't know what they are going to do about their contracts.

Losing Goorj and most of the boys will be hard on the fans and many will be concerned it wont feel like the kings anymore. Hopefully if the worst happens we will adjust quickly.

[Cussy]

[quote="The Customer":1zilmuhy][quote="havrilla the gorilla":1zilmuhy][quote="The Customer":1zilmuhy][quote="havrilla the gorilla":1zilmuhy]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:1zilmuhy]


And you would be a fine judge of one being a dick with your stupid sarcasm and one sentence posts that really add something to this site.[/quote:1zilmuhy]
Weren't you the one who was pissing all over the place about people not being able to judge each post/discussion on it's own merit? I reckon you were being a dick and told you so, so you claim my entire existence here is pointless? Nice contradiction, Magilla.[/quote:1zilmuhy]


You like making references to that part of the male anatomy don't you? Last time I was on my knees, now I'm urinating. You don't carry a ruler around by any chance? :wink:[/quote:1zilmuhy]
Two, to be honest.

[havrilla the gorilla]

[quote="havrilla the gorilla":1el000ny][quote="The Customer":1el000ny][quote="havrilla the gorilla":1el000ny][quote="The Customer":1el000ny][quote="havrilla the gorilla":1el000ny]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:1el000ny]


Two, to be honest.[/quote:1el000ny][/quote:1el000ny][/quote:1el000ny][/quote:1el000ny]

Which one for your forehead?

[Cussy]

[quote="The Customer":odq4p5yr][quote="havrilla the gorilla":odq4p5yr][quote=That quoting job you just did sums up perfectly the conversation we just had. Good work."The Customer"][quote="havrilla the gorilla":odq4p5yr][quote="The Customer":odq4p5yr][quote="havrilla the gorilla":odq4p5yr]PS - Love the cretins that jumped on your bandwagon. There even funnier than you! :D
Maybe it's because most people can see you are acting like a dick.[/quote:odq4p5yr]


Two, to be honest.[/quote:odq4p5yr]

Which one for your forehead?[/quote:odq4p5yr][/quote:odq4p5yr][/quote:odq4p5yr]

[scooterrich]

Stumps, did you say "except" a few posts ago when you should have said "accept"?

I think, ladies and gentlemen, we have a classic case of Pot Kettle Black.

You just go on and on and on......... This is why I think you are tedious. And just think, this time last week I was hoping the Kings would win GF5!

[curious]

Kings looking to survive OK.

[JWC]

Curious.....Please Elaborate?

Situation certainly needs to be resolved,and new coach put in place quickly to have any hope of retaining most of the players, before the free agent period gets rolling.

[kings89]

For coaching options, Joey Wright, Cal Bruton or Bevo would be my top choices (if available, of course)

As for the team:

Crosswhite
Victor
Saville
Kendall or Smith
Draper
Tovey
Hinder
Carter

Still not bad. If we could hang on to Wortho and pick up a decent free agent or two to fill the bench sports, we're in OK shape.

[showtime]

Just saw some highlights on youtube from the 1996 season....brought back some painful memories of how the Kings would always struggle to win games.

Its been a long time since we've had to experience those types of games.....I certainly hope it doesn't come to that again!

[An5w3r]

Sadly if anyone thinks Draper's gonna stay when the only reason he came in the first place has bailed, they've got another thing coming.

[Glenn]

DD was here as a stepping stone to the NBA was he not? So unless he gets drafted, he will be back.
More a question if he follows BG to where ever (assuming he is still coaching in the NBL)

[curious]

Curious.....Please Elaborate?
Situation certainly needs to be resolved,and new coach put in place quickly to have any hope of retaining most of the players, before the free agent period gets rolling.
New ownership group trying to get the deal they want.
Most current players are still contracted.
Not much time before the free agents list is finalised on Friday.
Not all gloom that's for sure.

[Glenn]

Right to assume this is still the ownership group mentioned before,despite BG going elsewhere?

[curious]

AFAIK, yes.

[Virus]

For coaching options, Joey Wright, Cal Bruton or Bevo would be my top choices (if available, of course)

As for the team:

Crosswhite
Victor
Saville
Kendall or Smith
Draper
Tovey
Hinder
Carter

Still not bad. If we could hang on to Wortho and pick up a decent free agent or two to fill the bench sports, we're in OK shape.

It says on the Dragons thread that Bruce is a done deal. If it is, Goorjian is not going to need Bruce, Kendall, Draper and Smith, so maybe there is some hope that Kendall and Smith might stay......well if the ownership changes and they sign a decent coach all before the free agent deadline of course. If this can't be done in time, it is hard to imagine they are going to pass up other offers to wait around and see what happens with the Kings.

[Earnie Shavers]

Who is actually running the Kings? With an ownership change, will there be management change? Is the ball rolling on coach recruitment, player re-signings, or is the whole thing stalled till an ownership change?

[Virus]

Just saw some highlights on youtube from the 1996 season....brought back some painful memories of how the Kings would always struggle to win games.

Its been a long time since we've had to experience those types of games.....I certainly hope it doesn't come to that again!

I could cope with the struggling to win games bit, just as long as the ownership changes, they bring in a decent coach and have a long term plan for the future that fans can believe and rally behind. Like what the Razorbacks are trying to do with Bevo, a young roster and a plan for the future.

If it just remains status quo with the current Kings ownership and the way they are run, they bring in a failed ex NBL coach and a week roster, and its struggle on and off the court for the next year or two before going through another financial collapse......for me, that will be the hard to take bit.

[gangsta boo]

Who is actually running the Kings? With an ownership change, will there be management change? Is the ball rolling on coach recruitment, player re-signings, or is the whole thing stalled till an ownership change?

Apparently its all rolling but we won't know what shape it may take til friday

[Antipodean2007]

maybe they can recruit some snobs in the offseason

because if theres one thing sydneysiders need, its more snobs to boost their reputation of showcasing australian hospitality!

:?

[Nerf Herder]

Losing I can cope with, as long as it's done by a team trying to win... nothing worse than trying to support a team that just gives up... It's fair enough if we can't afford/attract a team chock full of top talent, but if it's a solid team giving it their all (ala Wollongong later in the season when the chips were down) then I'm more than happy to continue on with my membership...

I'm all for following my team, but the players in that team plays a huge part of it... (is this where this was being discussed before the verbal bitch-slapping? too many threads to catch up on, getting blurry) It's more about if they're an actual team that I can feel passionate about, rather than a group of players out their for themselves being tools... I mean, say they signed Lampley... I know, never gonna happen *knock on wood*, but I'd find it REALLY hard to be keen on going to games... but say we had a solid team that were passionate about playing in the purple and gold made up of some cheaper, less flashy imports and some solid aussie talent on the verge of the top 8 and it came down to the wire, I'd be stoked to be going to games and be as passionate about getting as many other people to games as I was this season...

[Nerf Herder]

maybe they can recruit some snobs in the offseason

because if theres one thing sydneysiders need, its more snobs to boost their reputation of showcasing australian hospitality!

:?
Let me guess, you're a mexican? or from the serial killer state? lol...


[quote="Earnie Shavers":2p0os619]Who is actually running the Kings? With an ownership change, will there be management change? Is the ball rolling on coach recruitment, player re-signings, or is the whole thing stalled till an ownership change?

Apparently its all rolling but we won't know what shape it may take til friday[/quote:2p0os619]

I guess irrespective of who the owner is, the front office will stay the same and should be business as usual, yeah? (well, as long as they're getting paid, I guess... it's not as if it would be a seasonal job?)

[Da Houndawg #55]

maybe they can recruit some snobs in the offseason

because if theres one thing sydneysiders need, its more snobs to boost their reputation of showcasing australian hospitality!

:?
Let me guess, you're a mexican? or from the serial killer state? lol...

Don't mock us or you'll wind up on the wrong side of a barrel...

[Coachpete]

[quote=Antipodean2007]maybe they can recruit some snobs in the offseason

because if theres one thing sydneysiders need, its more snobs to boost their reputation of showcasing australian hospitality!

:?
Let me guess, you're a mexican? or from the serial killer state? lol...

Don't mock us or you'll wind up on the wrong side of a barrel...[/quote:25l31qc4]

Or inside a barrel