How long should you play before you ref?

[Meatbarn]

Wondering on everyones thoughts on how much experience in basketball potential refferees should have before they start reffing. In terms of eiher years played or level achieved.

[Coachpete]

Mate.....you seem to be missing the point....it's only if you CAN'T play that you become a ref :lol: :lol: :lol:

[BlowJoggs]

I thought it was - those who can't play coach, and those who can play a little bit but want to avenge their humiliation against those that can play, ref. :lol:

[Meatbarn]

Maybe I should rephrase the question. How long should it take you to realise you can't play before you start reffing? :D

[Hogsbreath]

Maybe I should rephrase the question. How long should it take you to realise you can't play before you start reffing? :D

When your eyesight is so bad that you can't catch a ball then you take up reffing.

[Trappist Monk]

When the psychotherapy hasn't worked and you've realised you're never going to be an accepted mamber of the human race, become a ref.

Except for Homer - he's a cool ref :)

[revolution]

Reffing is like coaching - you don't have to be a good player to be a good referee (or coach) but it helps.

There are no hard and fast rules about when you should start refereeing. You need to decide when it right for you. Although it suits some people to do it earlier, I would recommend the majority of people wait until they are at least 16 yo. It's much harder than flipping burgers at Macca's.

BTW - Despite the witty quips of our fellow posters :wink: I have seen just as many players and coaches who can't ref as refs who can't play.

[revolution]

When the psychotherapy hasn't worked and you've realised you're never going to be an accepted mamber of the human race, become a ref.
Fortunately, I have never aspired to be a mamber of the human race. Mambership has always been overrated - I prefer to be able to spell. :D

[Trappist Monk]

When the psychotherapy hasn't worked and you've realised you're never going to be an accepted mamber of the human race, become a ref.
Fortunately, I have never aspired to be a mamber of the human race. Mambership has always been overrated - I prefer to be able to spell. :D

I'll let your pedantry speak for itself :wink:

[revolution]

What does pendatry mean? I'm not too good with words with more than two sounds. :? :wink:

[Blind Teddy]

Pedantry would be derived from the word
Pedantic :-(adjective) being very careful and strict about exact meanings and facts etc. in learning.

If your thinking of being a Ref buy the dictionary first before the rule book.
That way you will be able to at least get the paperwork right and can still get abused for your crap refereeing.

[revolution]

sar·casm (sär'kăz'əm) noun

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.


com·pre·hen·sion (kŏm'prĭ-hĕn'shən) noun

1. (a) The act or fact of grasping the meaning, nature, or importance of; understanding.
(b) The knowledge that is acquired in this way.
2. Capacity to include.
3. Logic. The sum of meanings and corresponding implications inherent in a term.


I just love my new dictionary. Now all I need is a rule book and I will be able to referee without being abused (refer definitions above). :roll: :wink:

[Btdg]

Do they make the dictionary in braile nowadays? :wink: :D

Seriously, though, I'd wait until I thought I had a pretty good idea of the rules before reffing. Then do the course, and you'll find out just how wrong you were! Reffing's a pretty good way to make money when you are young, being involved in a sport you love, so why not. The more refs out there the better (then we can retire some of the crap ones that plague the landscape, and enjoy the quality refs that are left)

[revolution]

Nah .... I got a an audio book dictionary. Too lazy for braille. :D

[Trent]

Still waiting for the braille playboy mag?

[SLICE23]

wouldnt make a differance no of the refs know how to ref whether thatey have played or not.

[Trappist Monk]

wouldnt make a differance no of the refs know how to ref whether thatey have played or not.

slice, you kill me! :P

"fear is a illusion"

Location: a plant far far away

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Meatbarn]

Hey slice can you let us know what your on so we can take some ourselves to understand that last one? :lol:

[SLICE23]

sorry i was only looking at the main heading....and the word i stuffed up on was none.

[Coachpete]

sorry i was only looking at the main heading....and the word i stuffed up on was none.

No actually I think it was lots :lol:

[Skindog the Hawk]

As a referee (11 years) and a player (5 years), my refereeing came along when I started to play and realise more of the intracacies of the game and the things that got to me when I played.

Personally, there's nothing wrong with people coming straight into refereeing (i.e. not playing) as long as they have the temperament to deal with it.

On the flip side (players becoming referees), there's no specific time that they should have been playing for, however the longer someone has been playing, the more of a "feel for the game" they will have.

SD.

[Lemon Custard]

Mate.....you seem to be missing the point....it's only if you CAN'T play that you become a ref :lol: :lol: :lol:

Exactly.. That's why I did.

And then I got injured and therefore couldn't ref, so I became a coach. hehehhee...... (well I did!!!) :D

[Kingshood]

From what I can remember, I don't think any ref has ever played the game.

[Btdg]

Just another question for the refs...

After a game, how much self-evaluation do you do? You know, do you run through it in your mind, go back over a few calls you stuffed up, or times you didn't quite get to the rights spot or whatever? Ever admit to yourself that you had a shocker? And on the other hand, ever just feel you nailed it? Just wondering whether refs get the same sense of satisfaction players do from having a good game.

And what about partners. How do you deal with it when your partner is having a shocker, or if their a tossbag. I imagine good refs must cop flack equally from coaches, players, etc when their partner is having a shocker - doesn't this piss you off? Do you talk to each other in timeouts and give support? Or is the chat in timeouts like - "watch no 7, I think he's handchecking the shooters". Or do you just chat about the weekend or the hot chick in the front row?

Never having had the balls to ref (and being a decent player, as well as coach and administrator I probably haven't had the time anyway), I'm curious!

[revolution]

From what I can remember, I don't think any ref has ever played the game.
Depends what you call "played the game". If you mean NBL or higher, you are probably right. There are certainly a few Victorian referees who were capable of playing SEABL or Big V if they were so inclined.

Like AFL and NRL, but unlike cricket and tennis, basketball refereeing is a fairly physically demanding job - you have to beat the fast break up the court and follow the ball around the back court. You also don't get to sub when you get tired. You need to be able to run an excellent two-man game in the ABA and WNBL before you get a chance to "rest" in the three-man rotation of NBL.

Therefore, injury-riddled basketball veterans tend to take the head/assistant coach's spot on the team bench rather than don a whistle and go running around the court. There are very few NBL rookies over 35 and almost all are gone by 50-55yo. The ones who make it to 50+ manage to stay in the league by relying on their experience, rather than their physical abilities.

I think ex-players also realise just how much sh!t the referees cop and wisely elect to focus their energies elsewhere.

[Skindog the Hawk]

Depends what you call "played the game". If you mean NBL or higher, you are probably right. There are certainly a few Victorian referees who were capable of playing SEABL or Big V if they were so inclined.
Kevin Marsh (Wollongong) played for the Hawks from 1982 to 1984 and up to the start of this year had refereed 159 NBL games.

And what about partners???
Depends on who it is. Just like work colleagues, there are some partners who you will distinctly help if they're having an average game and there are some who you simply let "sink" in their own detritus of a game and you try to salvage what you can from the game. Every person and every game is different, and at the end of the game we try to call it as best we can.

SD.

[revolution]

Kevin Marsh (Wollongong) played for the Hawks from 1982 to 1984 and up to the start of this year had refereed 159 NBL games.
I stand corrected. Not too many after him, I'd imagine.

After a game, how much self-evaluation do you do? You know, do you run through it in your mind, go back over a few calls you stuffed up, or times you didn't quite get to the rights spot or whatever? Ever admit to yourself that you had a shocker? And on the other hand, ever just feel you nailed it? Just wondering whether refs get the same sense of satisfaction players do from having a good game.
In short, sh!tloads. I will always try to grab a video of my big games to review. And anyone who has been in the car with me after a game will testify to my willingness to discuss their view of the proceedings. I often replay situations in my head for days after the games, developing strategies to better handle those situations, should they reoccur. You don't often get an opportunity to take back your mistakes, so most of your energy needs to go into preventing them from happening again.

As for partners, in most cases there is little you can do about them. See the posts in this discussion (http://ozhoopsboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=57233&highlight=#57233) for an example of a referee who obliviously impacts on the performance of their partner and the game. It really comes down to whether the referee is aware of the quality of their peformance and open to some feedback/support. I try to support my partner whenever I can but sometimes it's like beating your head against a brick wall - but I don't think this is unique to sports officialdom.

When a coach or player legitimately complains to you about your partner's decision, you can either suggest they direct their enquiry to your partner or simply say is "I know what you mean" and empathise with them. There is little achieved by lying to them to cover an obvious error that cannot be corrected. It does nothing but ruin your credability.

Or is the chat in timeouts like - "watch no 7, I think he's handchecking the shooters". Or do you just chat about the weekend or the hot chick in the front row?
Yes, in that order. Again, some are more switched on than others. :wink:

[Btdg]

Wow, I'm very interested in this.

So you seem to be implying that you guys know there are crap refs out there, and you just have to deal with them as well. Do you ever rock up to a game, look at who your partner is, and just think to yourself "its gonna be a long night"? And as the refs are published in advance (for ABA anyway), are there any people who make you consider a sickie?

[revolution]

Yes and yes. But I have never actually swapped off a game because of the partner I have been rostered with. I would even ref with Homer :wink:

I definitely know of others who have swapped or pulled out because their rostered partner. It isn't just because of their partners abilities as much as personality conflicts between the two officials. I don't think this is unique to basketball refereeing.

[Trappist Monk]

Darrell Corcoran played NBL for Bankstown Bruins in 79-80 and went on to do a couple of seasons of NBL reffing 5 or 6 years back. He did SEABL, ABA and State League last year but not sure if he's still going this season. he refs like he played - very laid back :)

Funny thing is I used to play with Darrell at Bankstown back in the days when even Div. 1 had duty refs. He never ever picked up a whistle but always headed straight for the scorebench. Leopards.Spots.Change.

PS - I'd ref with Homer too :wink:

[RandyOrton]

I always look forward to being rostered to ref with Homer.

[Trappist Monk]

On the point about backing your partner up when they've made a dud call, it does take a good deal of diplomacy.

I normally give the knowing shrug, and may even suggest that I'll square it up later :shock: , but it does depend on who the call is on and where the game is at.

Agreeing with a hotheaded player that they've just been dudded can start a moan-fest for the rest of the game which can escalate and make your job just as difficult as your partner's. I often come down hard on players known to be like that and warn them about disputing the calls.

Sometimes I'll point out to the player where they may have got away with a 50/50 call earlier in the game and that often calms them down.

But, if there's like 30 seconds to go and the game is tied up, never agree that your partner got it wrong! There's absolutely no mileage in that unless you just want to rub the player's nose in it ... which a referee never does :wink:

[Skindog the Hawk]

Darrell Corcoran played NBL for Bankstown Bruins in 79-80 and went on to do a couple of seasons of NBL reffing 5 or 6 years back. He did SEABL, ABA and State League last year but not sure if he's still going this season. he refs like he played - very laid back :)

AFAIK Darrell may well be going around in SEABL this season.

SD.

[the_referee]

Ive never played basketball in my life i just love refereeing
Qualified referee of: Touch Football, Oztag, Cricket, Soccer, Basketball, soon to be league.
Only 14 years old
Memorised the F.I.B.A rule book

[revolution]

I'm sorry to hear that :wink: :lol:

I'm sorry to hear that :wink: :lol:

i 2nd :lol: :lol: