3pt Foul

OK, red 10 is on the 3pt line with the ball Blue 10 is on the ft line,
red 10 uses a head fake, blue 10 jumps, and lands infront of Red 10.
who then jumps into blue 10 to shoot
now blue 10 doesnt have a legal defensive position, but was their before red 10 jumped and didnt move at all when red 10 jumped into him...
The contact from red 10 jumping into blue 10 has great affect on the shot

foul or no foul?

[Skindog the Hawk]

No foul. Look at who caused the contact, and who had a legal guarding position. Defensive player was there and stationary prior to the offensive player making contact with the defence. Defence caused the contact, hence, no call.

SD.

[revolution]

No foul. Common sense tells you that the contact was caused by the shooter. It would not be fair to give the defence a foul.

[Coachpete]

The 2 referee type posters in front of me are surely making tongue in cheek comments. Fouls not to be called when the offensive player causes the contact???? Just take away 30% of Drewey and Reggie Miller's career points then.............. :lol:

Fouls get called ALL THE TIME when the offensive player causes contact. All the time at every level.

[Homer]

If that's what you've seen CP, it's because we've never reffed your games. In the play described above it should be either a no call or an offensive foul.

Check the three "F"s of legal defense.

The defender originally had both feet on the floor when he was on the free throw line gaurding the shooter. He was also facing the shooter. And as Expertise stated, he was there before the shooter jumped so all 3 "F"s are in place. Definately not a foul on the "D". No decide between a no call and an offensive foul.

[Coachpete]

Homer, my (tongue in cheek) reply was more aimed at the general comment that fouls don't get called when ofence causes the contact rather than the speific situation mentioned. I stand by the second part of my post though!
Please come and do some of my games.......I (and plenty of other coaches) would love not to have the crappy fouls where the shooter lands on the D or jumps into their arms get called

CP, you should see the referee draw for us

we get scott butler a few times in the next few weeks!!!
And everyone knows how great he is!!!

[Skindog the Hawk]

Please come and do some of my games.......I (and plenty of other coaches) would love not to have the crappy fouls where the shooter lands on the D or jumps into their arms get called

Round 6 of Sydney Junior Championships (when the f!!king draw finally gets done)

Sutherland 18W1 v. Someother Neville team (central venue)

Referees:
Homer
Skindog.

[Franklin]

OK, red 10 is on the 3pt line with the ball Blue 10 is on the ft line,
red 10 uses a head fake, blue 10 jumps, and lands infront of Red 10.
who then jumps into blue 10 to shoot
now blue 10 doesnt have a legal defensive position, but was their before red 10 jumped and didnt move at all when red 10 jumped into him...
The contact from red 10 jumping into blue 10 has great affect on the shot

foul or no foul?

But, you said blue 10 didn't have legal defensive position (even though he was still and didn't move. So, was blue leaning outside his cylinder or have his arms waving about and this is what red hit?

And if red was on the 3pt line then it's not a 3 point shot ...

[Trappist Monk]

Homer, my (tongue in cheek) reply was more aimed at the general comment that fouls don't get called when ofence causes the contact rather than the speific situation mentioned. I stand by the second part of my post though!
Please come and do some of my games.......I (and plenty of other coaches) would love not to have the crappy fouls where the shooter lands on the D or jumps into their arms get called

CP, I'm totally with you on this. My pet peeve is on the guy who drives baseline under the ring, comes to a jump stop, chucks a fake that no-one buys, then jumps backwards into the D to lay it off the glass and draw a foul. There's usually 2 defenders there both with their arms pretty much straight up but somehow they almost always get told they reached in. I think refs feel obliged to make the call because the offensive player usually ends up splattered on the floor.

Also, players taking off-balance, out-of-control shots in traffic and being bailed out by the refs gets me boiling. so too the example from expertise, the 3-point shooter jumping sideways or forwards into a defender.

It's time to stop bailing out dud moves and hit the offence with the foul.

OK, red 10 is on the 3pt line with the ball Blue 10 is on the ft line,
red 10 uses a head fake, blue 10 jumps, and lands infront of Red 10.
who then jumps into blue 10 to shoot
now blue 10 doesnt have a legal defensive position, but was their before red 10 jumped and didnt move at all when red 10 jumped into him...
The contact from red 10 jumping into blue 10 has great affect on the shot

foul or no foul?

But, you said blue 10 didn't have legal defensive position (even though he was still and didn't move. So, was blue leaning outside his cylinder or have his arms waving about and this is what red hit?

And if red was on the 3pt line then it's not a 3 point shot ...

Blue 10, wasn't legal in my opinon becoz of the 3 F'd
feet, first and facing...

his feet were out of his cyclnyer.. by the looks of the video..
he was facing and he was there first..
the shooter jumped into him and all contact was in the upper body...

[Coachpete]

Please come and do some of my games.......I (and plenty of other coaches) would love not to have the crappy fouls where the shooter lands on the D or jumps into their arms get called

Round 6 of Sydney Junior Championships (when the f!!king draw finally gets done)

Sutherland 18W1 v. Someother Neville team (central venue)

Referees:
Homer
Skindog.

Not too bad ......I'd settle for one decent ref :lol:

[Homer]

his feet were out of his cyclnyer.. by the looks of the video..
What the ........ there's a video of this?????

And what Monkey Boy( :wink: ) says about the player driving baseline then jumping out from behind the backboard, of course the ref calls a foul for reaching in because the offense hit the "D" in the guts with his shoulder. If a defender is in a natural stance with his hands straight up and he gets hit in the guts, what happens? He bends in the middle bringing his arms down. Easy call for a guttless rookie ref is a push or hands foul. I love this play. To see the look on his face when I call a charge on him or offer my hand to him to help him up off his arse after not calling anything, it's priceless. :lol:

we ahd one guy get called 3 times on the weekend for a hands foul when he jumped up straight took a hit in the mid section thus making his body bend, and his arms drop..

i was like.. man.. thats jsut tough..

[Franklin]

Blue 10, wasn't legal in my opinon becoz of the 3 F'd
feet, first and facing...

his feet were out of his cyclnyer.. by the looks of the video..
he was facing and he was there first..
the shooter jumped into him and all contact was in the upper body...

So, where was the cylinder? Was the upper body was in the cylinder but the feet weren't? Or was the upper body not in the cylinder but the feet were?! Or can you have a bendy cylinder?

ok, he was tehre first adn facing, but his feet are quite far apart.. i.e alot more than shoulder width

[Homer]

Really, it doesn't matter where his feet are, unless they are involved in the contact. If a defender is in a legal position and gets hit down the numbers but his feet are wider than shoulder width, it's still a charge.

[the_referee]

No foul by defence possible offence depending on how you play the advantage/disadvantage rule (which no player at my asociation knows about :evil: but still im told to call advantage/disadvantage)

[revolution]

speedy response huh? :wink:

[Bobby]

And of course in the NBA and Euroleague, you have the No Charge rule, where if you are in a 1.22 m radius around the ring, a charge can NEVER be called. Tough sledding if you play defence in that area and try to draw a charge. You can't draw one there because you're playing irresponsible ball.

[Homer]

It's much the same here too Bobby just that there is no line marked on the floor as the powers-that-be believe it would cause refs to be looking at the floor instead of watching the players. It could also cause more arguements than it solves when players or coaches believe that they were not inside the line. General rule of thumb here is that if the shot goes in, then contact is made, no call. If shot misses and contact disadvantages the defender, pushing foul on the shooter. Then again, I've seen intentional charges called in this situation when shooters have wiped out defenders with shirt fronts. Now that's a big call, an intentional charge.

wait till you see a screen set( wel it wasnt totally set!) with his elbows our like he is flexing his muscles.. and moving them...

now why someone would even do that... i dont know.. lol.. lucky our defender who defended it was tiny, and actually went under the guys elbow(without ducking)... but the 2nd defender wasn't so short...