LeBrons Block

[Sports Shmuck]

How crazy was LeBrons block on Rondo!
Big ups for rondo to try and dunk on him, but he got pinned so hard!!
Awesome start to the season!!

[Clips]

Yeah it was sick. He could have taken a bite out of the ring he was that high.

[Wallitron]

http://www.nba.com/video/games/cavaliers/2009/10/27/0020900001_bos_cle_play1.nba/

[Sports Shmuck]

Another one that was huge on Allen. He truly is a freak of nature

[Clips]

And another fast break dunk blocked. And as i write this nearly another on kg. I think he may be scary this season.. Very scary.

[Sports Shmuck]

Yeah plenty of highlights this year!
Just stop feeding the ball to shaq and they will be sweet!

[j-mac]

And another fast break dunk blocked. And as i write this nearly another on kg. I think he may be scary this season.. Very scary.

Probably more scary now that they're 0-2. LeBron will be pissed.

[Cussy]

Can someone find the clip of LeBron running the pick and roll properly?

Oh, that's right, IT DOESN'T EXIST!!!

[Lethal Vertical]

Should that have been a foul?

No strict body on body contact, but it's clear that Lebron's contact was the reason Rondo hit the floor. And you can't argue he jumped straight up or anything.

[RaMarQabLe]

Should that have been a foul?

No strict body on body contact, but it's clear that Lebron's contact was the reason Rondo hit the floor. And you can't argue he jumped straight up or anything.

in the spirit of the game... lebron only makes contact once rondo has had his shot well and truly blocked.. both players are now out of the play. No advantage or disadvantaged for any player has been gained. Fantastic no call.


had the contact occued before the clean block then ... yes its a foul.

[Wallitron]

What video were you guys watching? That was as clean as a whistle. Rondo fell over because he wasn't expecting to get absolutely and comprehensively stuffed, and lost his balance. There was ZERO contact, before, during and after the block. Watch the video again, the second replay shows air gap between arms, body, everything.

And fans whine about referees getting it wrong, when certain fans have three replays and still can't work it out.

[Clips]

What video were you guys watching? That was as clean as a whistle. Rondo fell over because he wasn't expecting to get absolutely and comprehensively stuffed, and lost his balance. There was ZERO contact, before, during and after the block. Watch the video again, the second replay shows air gap between arms, body, everything.
Yeah that's what I thought.

[Lethal Vertical]

Wallitron, Clips, there's clear contact from Lebron onto Rondo's arm. See 0:09. As I said it wasn't body, but there is definitely contact to Rondo's non shooting arm. Look at Rondo's course of motion. Imagine Lebron wasn't there. Now, if you're arguing no contact at all, then you're basically saying that either 1. Rondo would've had the same course of motion regardless of whether Lebron was even there or 2. It was purely Rondo that caused his direction change, in response to the impending defender.

Based on both replays but especially replay 1 (baseline), proposition 1 seems absurd to me. So we're left with proposition 2, which is the questionable one. Replay 1 looks like a clear foul, replay 2 is arguable either way.

RaMarQabLe, you're right- that's probably the way the ref saw it. I'm fairly sure that technically the player's still in the shooting motion until he hits the ground, but in reality they just use their discretion on that, which is fair enough. However, the contact with Lebron's body on the non shooting arm happens at the same time the shot gets blocked (0:09) so it's still not a clear cut decision from my point of view. I still lean towards a foul. Although I don't watch a lot of NBA, so admittedly I don't have a good feel for how they interpret things.

[Lethal Vertical]

Here's another block that I think should've been called a foul, but this one seems more clear cut than the Lebron one:

http://www.nba.com/video/games/cavaliers/2009/10/27/0020900001_bos_cle_play1.nba/

[Clips]

Although I don't watch a lot of NBA, so admittedly I don't have a good feel for how they interpret things. If any home team in the NBA made a block like that, and had a foul whistled, there would be a riot.

[Lethal Vertical]

I don't doubt it, but would that be cos it was clean, or mostly cos they whistled on a mad block? Let's face it, no one likes to see huge plays wrecked by a ref's whistle, even if the ref is technically right.

[Wallitron]

Here's another block that I think should've been called a foul, but this one seems more clear cut than the Lebron one:

http://www.nba.com/video/games/cavaliers/2009/10/27/0020900001_bos_cle_play1.nba/

LV, can yo tell me how the link you posted is different to the one I posted in this thread three days ago (see the third post)?

Can I now assume that your long winded posts are because you are talking about a totally different play, totally unrelated to the initial post that created this thread?

Before posting again, please read, and explain here in your own words Newton's laws of motion.

[Lethal Vertical]

Newton's laws? What is this, year 8 physics? Or year 10?

Generally when people are going in a jumping motion (towards the ring), then someone makes contact with them and, at the same time contrary to your previous expectation of them continuing in their natural motion, they start going in another direction (swiftly towards the floor), it's fair to assume that the contact was at least partly to blame. You know, cause the effect and all that. Rondo has to take some blame too- looks like he may have predicted the impending defender. As I said it's a matter of degree.

Seems that when you check out a few different plays in the same browser, the link doesn't change. I was referring to a Brook Lopez block.

[Wallitron]

Nothing in the three angles shown shows any sort if contact. Your only "evidence" of contact is Rondo falling over out of bounds, but that totally discounts the fact that Rondo was at full speed, and then LeBron beats the shit out of the ball while Rondo is still holding it.

[Lethal Vertical]

Freeze it at 0:09.

Firstly, Lebron body clearly makes contact with his left arm. At the same time, Rondo's body twists around. Secondly, why would he land like that, if there was no contact at all, even if he was at full speed?

It's clearly a question of degree. As I said, first angle looks like a foul, second shows the contact was minimal. But, I'm inclined to call fouls when there's contact made on a shooter and it looks like it may have affected the shot, unless the defender's in his position and the contact is mostly the offensive player's fault. But Lebron clearly wasn't in position, as he was jumping across, not straight up.

Some of the fouls they called on Dwight Howard in last year's finals, I remember thinking Gosh, he's got the rough end of the stick there. There was more contact than this James-Rondo incident, but he was actually jumping straight up, from a legal position. In that case, should be no call. But that wasn't the case here.

[Wallitron]

Freeze it at 0:09.

Firstly, Lebron body clearly makes contact with his left arm. At the same time, Rondo's body twists around. Secondly, why would he land like that, if there was no contact at all, even if he was at full speed?


Since you understand Newton's laws so well, I'm sure you already understand. If I'm in a car not wearing a seat belt, why in a car crash do I go through the windscreen? It's not like the car hit me!?!!?!?! LeBron hits the ball sideways with great force, while Rondo is attempting to throw it down with great force. It's pure physics.

Now you're saying that Rondo's off hand makes contact with LeBron? So are you arguing that it should have been an offensive foul then?
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_uigQGctx9ss/Su5FJ2_AoHI/AAAAAAAADXw/gyCFDKPC9gw/s800/LeBron.jpg

Rondo has extended his left arm and is pushing off LeBron? Sure, I guess he is.



It's clearly a question of degree.

No, it's clearly not, unless you are talking about a foul on Rondo?

[Lethal Vertical]

It could only be an offensive foul if the defender was in some kind of position and the contact was caused by the offensive player. Lebron was jumping across towards Rondo, and Rondo was going at the ring. So the contact between Lebron's and Rondo's arm was caused by Lebron.

The question is purely and simply whether there was enough contact to justify a foul call. And also whether the contact affected the shot, because if there was minimal contact and the layup isn't affected, then the game's better off without it getting called. It's lineball in my view.

[Wallitron]

It could only be an offensive foul if the defender was in some kind of position and the contact was caused by the offensive player. Lebron was jumping across towards Rondo, and Rondo was going at the ring. So the contact between Lebron's and Rondo's arm was caused by Lebron.


I'm glad we got to the bottom of this. It's clear now that you don't understand the rules. It doesn't matter who initiates the contact, you can't extend your arm away from your body with or without the ball, have someone run into it and then get a foul called on them.

You can legally use an arm bar to protect yourself, that is it. The (very minimal) contact here isn't an arm bar, the only foul that could possibly be called due to contact would be on Rondo. For LeBron to be pinged on even the most picky of fouls, his arms have to hit Rondo anywhere on his body, or it has to be body on body contact. If Rondo hadn't pushed off with his left hand, maybe, just maybe that might have happened, but it is more likely that pushing off with the left hand gave Rondo an advantage here, not LeBron.

[Lethal Vertical]

Rondo's going towards the ring and Lebron's body is heading towards Rondo, so I don't see how you can argue that gives Rondo the advantage. Unless Rondo's left arm is stronger than Lebron's body, that clearly is not the case!

We do differ on interpretation (I'm not a ref- and won't suggest I have a better handle on the rules than you) but I think we differ on the level of contact, or who's causing it, in this instance too. It's not fair to suggest Rondo was "pushing off". His arm certainly didn't extend far from his body at all.

I do want to clarify some things though. Don't have time to go into this further now, but will write another post when I get a chance.

[Wallitron]

The image I posted was from the exact moment you suggested, 1:09. It shows Rondo with his arm fully extended (elbow locked). In NRL they call that a fend, in the NFL a stiff arm. He's got his hand either close to his hip, or maybe a bit higher close to his gut.

When I said "pushing off", I probably should have said fending. You don't need to be straightening your arm for it to be an offensive foul. A fend with a locked elbow with your hand away from your body is an offensive foul. An arm bar requires you to have about a 90 degree angle between your forearm and upper arm, so anything straighter than that will get you into trouble.

I'm not saying Rondo's left arm actually did anything. I originally said ZERO contact, and I still believe that. Having that arm outside "his cylinder" means that any contact with it it doesn't count as a foul even if there was contact.

If you are saying that the only reason Rondo fell like he did was because of contact between LeBron and his left arm, I can live with that. No way can it be a defensive foul though.

[Cussy]

Is someone suggesting that the only way that Rondo could have fallen is if there was contact?

[Lethal Vertical]

Never got back to this thread. So basically Walli, you're saying that unless Lebron intrudes on someone else's cylinder, he shouldn't get a foul called on him?

And, what did people think of the contact on Lebron's drive to the basket at the death of today's game? A score would've won it. Should that one have been a foul?

[Wallitron]

Body on body, yes.

Today, I have no idea what the rule is with the circle. Isn't an automatic foul if you make contact while your inside the charge circle? I'm thinking 9 times out of 10 LeBron gets that call.

[Clips]

Today, I have no idea what the rule is with the circle. Isn't an automatic foul if you make contact while your inside the charge circle? .
Contact in the circle isn't an automatic foul, but anything that would normally be a charge is a blocking foul.