Victorian Players Pathway to NBL?

[Old Hack]

Being a Victorian you would naturally assume that the best players that represent Victoria Metro in the U18 National Championships would be the most likely players to progress through to the NBL in future years after having dominated the National U18 Championships for the last 10+ years.

The VJBL's Victorian Championships is rated the strongest Junior competition in the Country so again you would assume the best players would be the most likely to progress through to the NBL.

I've done some investigation to search online for the Vic Metro U18 Mens squads from 2004-2009.

Interestingly I have found only one player from these squads over 6 years that is currently playing NBL - Ryan Bathie DP at Melbourne - 2004 Vic Metro.

I did find James Orr - 2006 & 2007 Vic Metro - was DP at South Dragons last season but thats all ended now.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. You may need to search further for the 2000-2003 Vic Metro teams to find more players currently playing NBL.

I know I've seen a lot of these Victorian players names currently playing on SEABL & BIG V squads but why are Victoria's best U18's not making the transition to NBL.

Why is there a breakdown in the pathway from Victorian Metro teams to NBL Clubs. Is it because of the lack of NBL teams in Victoria.

Is it that many of these players go off to College - then prefer to get full-time employment at the end of College - rather than play professionally in the NBL or overseas.

What is the real pathway to the NBL for Victorian players? I suspect its now only possible for Vic players to get to the NBL via the strong SEABL & Big V Clubs!

[Melb Wildcat]

One reason might be the AIS as most of the 'talented' kids get scholarships at age 16/17 and don't always have to play Under 18's for their state or have other basketball commitments with the tute to play.

While VIC Metro have always been strong it seems that they do not have a dominate player, but many good players. The other states seem to have 1 or 2 very good players but seem to be weaker overall teams.

The option of college is also there for many of them --players from Vic Metro clubs teams such as Kilsyth, Knox, Dandy etc have taken up this option. have both METRO and CITY teams so the talent in the state is spead over two teams. I also know that NSW has in certain tournaments had both NSW Country A and B teams.

The best way to make the NBL is obviously to be in the AIS as you play against men in SEABL and also get great International experience against the best juniors from around the world. Once you graduate from the AIS then maybe a bit of college then NBL (Dan Johnson, Weigh etc) or go directly to NBL like Ingles, Gibson etc.

[coachdb]

This is definitely a big problem here at present.

If you miss the AIS what is the pathway to the NBL or Boomers?

These players must make sure they work just as hard as the AIS guys just to keep up, but they don't have the time, opportunity, access to resources, competition, etc, etc, etc.

We put so much into those 15 kids at the 'tute, but really forget the next tier of players who are really bloody good.

And where do half of them go?...football. The AFL absolutely loves these kids!!!

At our club, we have had several players just miss higher rep teams and see no pathway to some $$ in basketball because their game doesn't exactly fit the slot the current coaches are looking for, get jack of it and go to football (four in AFL, four in VFL over four seasons) - all before they turn 19!!

As a coach of this age group of boys/men, I'm really looking for some leadership from the new administration so we can stop the leak of these outstanding players to other sports.

[Melb Wildcat]

A reason they go to AFL is because there are more spots to get on a teams list. In AFL there are 16 teams each with 40 players on it (over 600 players), while in Australian basketball there are currently 8 teams each with 10 players (just 80 spots not including spots taken by imports). A VFL player can even earn more than a lower tier NBL player player so there is even more reason to play AFL as if they are not up to standard the VFL still can pay well.

Players that miss the AIS are best trying to get a college scholarship. That way they can focus on basketball and also get a education.

Mark worthington I believe didnt play for the AIS (I might be wrong)? Mick Hill is another who got into NBL through a training style camp when at the Cannons.

[Old Hack]

Australian U19 EMU's 2009
Jorden PAGE PG 183cm 6'0" 06/10/1990 Nambour
Bryce ARNOTT PG 185cm 6'1" 23/04/1990 Berwick
Jason CADEE SG 186cm 6'1" 15/04/1991 Green Acre
Cristan SALECICH SG 193cm 6'4" 01/09/1990 Prairiewood
Matthew DELLAVEDOVA SG 190cm 6'3" 08/09/1990 Maryborough
Hugh GREENWOOD SF 189cm 6'2" 06/03/1992 Hobart
Ryan BROEKHOFF PF 197cm 6'6" 23/08/1990 Frankston
Brock MOTUM PF 206cm 6'9" 16/10/1990 Sunnybank
Cody ELLIS PF 204cm 6'8" 24/04/1990 Subiaco
Matthew HODGSON C 208cm 6'10" 02/08/1991 Ipswich
Mitchell YOUNG PF 206cm 6'9" 06/08/1990 Coffs Harbour
Shane HARRIS-TUNKS C 206cm 6'9" 27/05/1990 Green Acre

This is the team which represented Australia at the 2009 U19 World Championships. All these guys come through the AIS if I'm not mistaken and are coached extremely well.

They are athletic and exciting to watch as a group. Why is it none of these guys are playing NBL.

If these were the best U19 AFL footballers in 2009 they would be drafted to play by the Clubs and offered decent contracts earning themselves above average salaries.

But I bet most of these players will most likely go to college costing 10's of thousands of dollars but never return to play NBL.

So you could say that not only is there no pathway from Victoria to the NBL but it seems no State in Australia has an effective pathway for young players to get to the NBL players.

[Melb Wildcat]

As stated earlier there are more positions available to stock up on rookies in AFL than what there is in NBL.

Most of that AIS team have been given college scholorships to DIV 1 colleges (worth a fortune) to improve their basketball but also gain a degree. AFL rookie listed players get $20,000 a year, AFL rookies on the senior list get 45,000 (play match payments).

Only a few players over the years that have attended the AIS have not gone on to not play some type of proffessional basketball.

[RedbackVenom]

This is the team which represented Australia at the 2009 U19 World Championships. All these guys come through the AIS if I'm not mistaken and are coached extremely well.

They are athletic and exciting to watch as a group. Why is it none of these guys are playing NBL.

If these were the best U19 AFL footballers in 2009 they would be drafted to play by the Clubs and offered decent contracts earning themselves above average salaries.

But I bet most of these players will most likely go to college costing 10's of thousands of dollars but never return to play NBL.

So you could say that not only is there no pathway from Victoria to the NBL but it seems no State in Australia has an effective pathway for young players to get to the NBL players.

Apart from a few guys on your list, all of them have headed to College! I would expect the remainder to follow next year too. And the guys returning from college that don't get NBA or European contracts do in fact come back to the NBL. This season that list of returning college players includes players like Ryan Bathie and Tim Lang at Melbourne just to name 2. Aaron Bruce, Luke Schenscher, Stephen Weigh, Alex Loughton etc etc are all ex-college players just to name a few more over recent times.

[Old Hack]

Another uphill battle facing the sport (http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/11/06/can-basketball-bounce-back/)is the increasing number of young talent leaving Australia soil to further their careers in the American college system.

Watkins, who is now player and development manager with Basketball NSW, believes that the amount of players going to the US is hindering the development of the NBL.

“I believe the junior programs in Australia are producing good kids and it’s unfortunate over recent times a lot of those good kids, instead of going in to the NBL and WNBL, they’re taking the (US) college path which is taking away those young boys and girls away from the Australian professional leagues.

“So we’re seeing the older guys now staying in the NBL longer because of that, as there’s not that influx of younger guys coming into teams in the NBL.”

Another article submitted to Roar last week also mentions comments from Mark Watkins stating one of the problems with the NBL is that all of the talented juniors are heading off to college. I maintain that the majority of players are not returning to Australia to play NBL other than maybe 2-3 per year.

So for the 100+ Aussies reportedly playing in US Colleges the return rate is incredibly low. Not enough to sustain a vibrant League.

Maybe NBL Clubs need to start offering University Scholarships to retain the talent in Australia by developing these players in the NBL system while providing them with an Education.

Maybe we could have an U23 AIS team which plays in the NBL while maintaining the younger AIS Men playing SEABL in Winter. The AIS Women have been providing a continuous stream of players to the WNBL over many years and I can't see why a similar model would not work for the NBL.

Its about providing an alternate path to the NBL for these young guys so they don't have to leave Australia to play basketball which directly benefits the NBL & Clubs & Young talented players.

[franga4eva]

If there has been a strong surge in the number gaining US college scholarships in the last few years, then they'll still be at college, and the number returning may well start to increase over the next few years.
And aren't there more females now getting US college scholarships from Australia than males? If so, why would there be more AIS females going into the WNBL than males into the NBL?
Not that I disagree with you on any of your points though.

[Melb Wildcat]

More women Australian players head to the WNBL and the AIS men to NBL because there is much more money to be made overseas for the men.

A player on the minimum wage in the NBA earns more then an entire WNBA roster. Stephon Marbury earned 2 times more last season for barely even playing a game than the entire WNBA league.

Unless your name is Lauren JAckson, Penny Taylor or Harrower who can make some big dollars, you are almost better off staying at home and playing WNBL if you are female. Of course there is good money to be had for women in certain countries but it doesnt compare to the men.

An Under 23 AIS men's team in the NBL would NOT work in my opinion. The AIS is viewed as amatuer, and an AIS scholarship doesnt compare to the big $ scholarships provided by US colleges. That and a AIS player isnt going to play at that age if he isnt getting paid.

[Factor]

There are more and more Vic clubs positioning their youth league teams as kind of college feeder programs now, maybe the kickbacks from US colleges are lucrative?
This can often be to the determent of those club's senior programs, too many kids are getting pushed into college systems that aren't really all that good or the kid isn't really that good either.
The assumption that kids arent returning is not right..
There are a number of issues to take into account, some returning kids just aren't upto NBL standard, simple as that and return to an ABA system like SEABL/Big V etc, some bypass the NBL for Europe, others back to the NBL, but don't forget, vacant spots on NBL rosters is rare seeing there is only 8 teams.
With only 1 Victorian NBL team now the opportunities are extremely limited for development spots on limited money.
A few years in SEABL will show if they're upto it or not, the good ones get picked up from there.

[Old Hack]

Maybe NBL Clubs need to start offering University Scholarships to retain the talent in Australia by developing these players in the NBL system while providing them with an Education.

Its about providing an alternate path to the NBL for these young guys so they don't have to leave Australia to play basketball which directly benefits the NBL & Clubs & Young talented players.

Well maybe key people at the NBL are reading these forums!

LARRY Sengstock (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26376754-5006371,00.html) has backed plans by some NBL clubs, including Adelaide, to perfect a university scholarship system aimed at keeping our best young players in Australia.

Clearly it is a concern at BA that Australia's best junior basketballers are heading overseas for 4 year college scholarships and not necessarily returning to the NBL or WNBL.