TRADE ME

[Stanley]

Crosswhite and/or Burston MUST GO
Imports MELZER and BAILEY can be packaged with the above.

Im willing to take pretty much any deal

[Stumps]

The problem is that most of the rest of us already have two centres.

But of course, despite this, centres are apparently such a rare resource that they need to be protected by the ongoing two-centre rule ...

[pilonv1]

I was giving away Paul Rogers last week and no one wanted him. The two centres rule is stifling deals.

[Stumps]

This is what happens when you let hard-core lefties run things. Their condescending little welfare-driven rules end up hurting the very people they are supposed to help.

[Stanley]

Especially when the likes of Pero are named centre.
According in NBL.com.au he is.

Sif he'll play there when Horvath is back, and will probably keep Cornette.

NBL.com.au also has BURSTON as a FWD/CTR

Yahoo FNBA - Updates their positions as NEEDED due to injuries etc during the course of the season.

[moonshadow]

NBL.com.au also has BURSTON as a FWD/CTR

Yahoo FNBA - Updates their positions as NEEDED due to injuries etc during the course of the season.

Burston is a bad example.
The NBL has made the mistake by putting him as F/C... which they have done, for no reason, since the start of his career.

And I wouldnt try using Yahoo to back up your story either.
Their Positions are based entirely on starting lineups, and are relatively incosistent as well.

[Stanley]

And I wouldnt try using Yahoo to back up your story either.
Their Positions are based entirely on starting lineups, and are relatively incosistent as well.

What else should it be based on????

[moonshadow]

And I wouldnt try using Yahoo to back up your story either.
Their Positions are based entirely on starting lineups, and are relatively incosistent as well.

What else should it be based on????

maybe nothing.

And thats my point.

You should just accept that every competition has different 'criteria' (for want of a better word) for setting positions (and not all really make sense - including major competitions like Yahoo and ESPN VGM/Fastbreak)... and sometimes you just have to accept it and go on with the game.

[Stumps]

When there are 22 people in a particular competition (as opposed to hundreds of thousands worldwide), and the competition was run perfectly by the last guy, I don't think it's unfair to speak up and (a) suggest improvements; and (b) demand reasons for decisions that have made arguably the game worse.

[pilonv1]

I wouldn't say worse, just more frustrating :)

[Stumps]

Well, the two aren't mutually exclusive :wink:

In fairness, the operational administration has been absolutely top notch, with the results updated in a very timely way and the spreadsheet superb. This is by far the hardest bit and those efforts are no doubt appreciated by all of us.

It's just been the strategic administration that has caused confusion and dismay :lol:

[The Glove]

fucking sooks

[T-Rich]

In fairness, the operational administration has been absolutely top notch, with the results updated in a very timely way and the spreadsheet superb. This is by far the hardest bit and those efforts are no doubt appreciated by all of us.

Couldn't agree more. Skinner's doing a superb job with the stats - much better than I could have managed this year.


It's just been the strategic administration that has caused confusion and dismay :lol:

It is tough to get the balance right. I tended to just side with the majority, whilst Skinner can take a slightly more *ahem* authoritarian approach. I think there is probably just a bit of resentment from the "CoT promotion" issue at the start of the season. If Skinner had come out straight away and said that he had knackered up, perhaps everyone wouldn't be so quick to jump on all his subsequent decisions.

[Stumps]

(Extremely Naughty Word!) sooks
I seem to remember that a certain somebody would be in Div 2 right now if it wasn't for the sooking ...

[Stumps]

It is tough to get the balance right. I tended to just side with the majority, whilst Skinner can take a slightly more *ahem* authoritarian approach. I think there is probably just a bit of resentment from the "CoT promotion" issue at the start of the season. If Skinner had come out straight away and said that he had knackered up, perhaps everyone wouldn't be so kick to jump on all his subsequent decisions.
Well, one of the keys to leadership is knowing what your strengths are and not being afraid to get help with the other bits -- nobody can be perfect in every way, and it just pisses everybody off if they think they have to try to be.

[moonshadow]

And I wouldnt try using Yahoo to back up your story either.
Their Positions are based entirely on starting lineups, and are relatively incosistent as well.

What else should it be based on????

going back to this... I completely missed your point.

I mean that by just looking at Starting Lineups you completely ignore what position someone plays at for most of a game... or what they are capable of playing.

The most obvious examples are teams like Golden State where the roster "Centers" only really combine to play about half a game.
When Troy Murphy is spending as much time at Center than Adonal Foyle, then why shouldnt Murphy also be Center eligible?

Or, also, looking in New York.
Marbury and Crawford are both combo-guards. Just because Crawford doesnt play PG right now, doesnt mean he shouldnt be listed as PG-SG.

My point still pretty much remains the same though - theres no perfect way of doing it.
-----

With regard to everyone complaining.

10 weeks into the season isnt really the time.

The rules were set out pretty early, and dont forget I was the one who first pointed at, and criticised, the centers rule. (when it was: Only draft 1 C in the first 5 rounds, only draft another in the next 5 rounds).
Im not sure how many people argued it at the time, but i'm sure it was far from the majority.

In which case, there was no reason to change - and after everyone drafted, there really is no way of just disbanding the rule. (otherwise it would've changed how people drafted)

[The Glove]

(Extremely Naughty Word!) sooks
I seem to remember that a certain somebody would be in Div 2 right now if it wasn't for the sooking ...

show me where I was sooking..

Taking the piss would be more appropriate.

You all know the rules so live with it (as some of you put last season... )

[Stumps]

Sigh ... if it wasn't for OUR sooking, I meant.

Actually, we didn't know the rules in the beginning, and were given no opportunity to comment on them (it would have been helpful for some of us to give feedback, because no offence to Skindog, but he's clearly not the most experienced person in fantasy leagues, particularly of the rotisserie variety). In fact, many of the rules were made up or told to the participants after the season had already commenced.

[moonshadow]

Sigh ... if it wasn't for OUR sooking, I meant.

Actually, we didn't know the rules in the beginning, and were given no opportunity to comment on them (it would have been helpful for some of us to give feedback, because no offence to Skindog, but he's clearly not the most experienced person in fantasy leagues, particularly of the rotisserie variety). In fact, many of the rules were made up or told to the participants after the season had already commenced.

http://www.ozhoopsboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=4577

Friday August 26th:
The only limitations are as follows:

* Teams can only select one centre in the first 5 rounds.
* Teams can only select a second centre in the last 5 rounds.
* Teams can select a maximum of three import players

SD.

Are there any other rules that I'm not aware of?

[Skindog the Hawk]

It's called decision-making-on-the-run Stumps...and having said that, if we had it my way we'd be playing head-to-head every week ;) 8)

SD.

[Stumps]

Decision-making on the run doesn't need to be without explanation or consultation and completely non-negotiable. There's nothing admirable about making a poor hasty decision and doing it all yourself.

Please tell me you're joking about the H2H in a league that sees teams play between zero and three games each week!

[Stumps]

Friday August 26th:
The only limitations are as follows:

* Teams can only select one centre in the first 5 rounds.
* Teams can only select a second centre in the last 5 rounds.
* Teams can select a maximum of three import players

SD.

Are there any other rules that I'm not aware of?
Well, for starters, the rules above don't say you can only have two centres on your roster -- they say you can only draft two centres. There should be nothing stopping people subsequently acquiring additional centres through other means, yet people have been stopped. (In fact, if you read those rules literally, they say that if you don't select a centre in the first five rounds, you can't ever select one at all. But Skindog's obviously no lawyer so I'll let that one pass for now.) It's now led to the ridiculous situation where quality centres are being dropped and not fought over because everybody already has two frigging centres. There doesn't need to be a rule to stop centre hoarding. If you see everybody else picking up all the centres, then bloody well draft one with your next pick. If you're stupid enough to get through the draft with no centres, then trade with somebody who will inevitably have ended up with more than he or she can play. Participants in roto leagues all around the world seem to be able to handle this -- why can't we?

Then there's the fact that last season the rules were that you had to play 3 guards, 3 forwards, a centre, and one other miscellaneous position, with two non-scoring players. This season, it's 2 guards, 2 forwards, a centre and three other miscellaneous positions, though this was never expressed in an official rule and didn't appear until after the draft. This is not a biggie, but it's another example of the ever-shifting environment.

Then there was the ridiculous matter of the live draft which not everybody could make, which for whatever reason had to occur over a full week before the season started. I started up a draft on the message board, and Skindog refused to even consider shifting the live draft, even when it became clear that it would be possible to finish the message board draft (if not completely than at least substantially) before the season started, thus ensuring that EVERY participant would be able to make their own pick rather than being lumped with the Skindog specials.

Don't get me started on the Three Point Percentage debacle, where the Commissioner attempted to foist upon us all the unheard of situation where 3P% would be the measured category, not 3PM. The fact that this would have made us unique among roto leagues worldwide aside, it seems surreal that somebody would even consider making a change like this DURING THE SEASON AND AFTER THE DRAFT WHEN EVERYBODY HAD ALREADY MADE SELECTIONS IN RELIANCE ON THE ORIGINAL CRITERION. Thankfully, the public outcry led to a reluctant poll, and 3PM was retained as the category.

I haven't even gone into the complete disposal of the rules from last season with respect to promotions and demotions, with mid-table finishers from Div 2 coming up to Div 1 ahead of the people who finished above them them in Div 2 (no explanation given) and mid-table finishers from Div 1 going down to Div 2.

As you can see, it's not like there's no reason to be concerned. I've probably left something out, too. Maybe pilonv1 or anok can help me out if that's the case.

[moonshadow]

Well, for starters, the rules above don't say you can only have two centres on your roster -- they say you can only draft two centres.

As if that wasnt implied. :roll:

Then there's the fact that last season the rules were that you had to play 3 guards, 3 forwards, a centre, and one other miscellaneous position, with two non-scoring players. This season, it's 2 guards, 2 forwards, a centre and three other miscellaneous positions, though this was never expressed in an official rule and didn't appear until after the draft. This is not a biggie, but it's another example of the ever-shifting environment.

When he says: "The only limitations are as follows:" - and its not listed, then its pretty safe to assume that its not in the rules.


Then there was the ridiculous matter of the live draft which not everybody could make,
Is there ever a live draft that everyone can make?

Don't get me started on the Three Point Percentage debacle,

Fair enough, but he did change it relatively quickly.


I haven't even gone into the complete disposal of the rules from last season with respect to promotions and demotions, with mid-table finishers from Div 2 coming up to Div 1 ahead of the people who finished above them them in Div 2 (no explanation given) and mid-table finishers from Div 1 going down to Div 2.

How does that effect the in-game play?

You'd think that if he was intentionally gonna promote a team, he would promote his own, hey?
-----

Stumps, the vast majority of the time, you are pretty spot on with your posting. However here, I think you're letting your other feelings about Skindog get in the way.

[Stumps]

Well, for starters, the rules above don't say you can only have two centres on your roster -- they say you can only draft two centres.
As if that wasnt implied. :roll:
Damn it's annoying when people cluelessly (and thus ironically) use the eye-roll emoticon. Dude, never become a lawyer. It's not at all implied. The rules provide for people to have every opportunity to DRAFT a centre. Presumably, once the draft is over, everybody will have their centres, and there is no need to keep enforcing the rule. Why would it need to continue at that point?

Then there's the fact that last season the rules were that you had to play 3 guards, 3 forwards, a centre, and one other miscellaneous position, with two non-scoring players. This season, it's 2 guards, 2 forwards, a centre and three other miscellaneous positions, though this was never expressed in an official rule and didn't appear until after the draft. This is not a biggie, but it's another example of the ever-shifting environment.
When he says: "The only limitations are as follows:" - and its not listed, then its pretty safe to assume that its not in the rules.
No, because previous statements indicated that where there was no advice to the contrary, the rules were the same as last season.


Then there was the ridiculous matter of the live draft which not everybody could make,
Is there ever a live draft that everyone can make?
Yes, one which is isn't completely live. As usual, you've missed my point completely.

Don't get me started on the Three Point Percentage debacle,
Fair enough, but he did change it relatively quickly.
No, he didn't, he had a drawn-out poll during which he campaigned for the ridiculous alternative. There should not have even been the PROSPECT of changing something this critical DURING THE SEASON. It would have rendered the competition a farce.


I haven't even gone into the complete disposal of the rules from last season with respect to promotions and demotions, with mid-table finishers from Div 2 coming up to Div 1 ahead of the people who finished above them them in Div 2 (no explanation given) and mid-table finishers from Div 1 going down to Div 2.
How does that effect the in-game play?
Are you serious? It affects it significantly for the people who are in the wrong division. The whole point of the competition is to work your way into Div 1 and stay there. There's no glory in beating a comp with guys who pick Lanard Copeland in the third round.

You'd think that if he was intentionally gonna promote a team, he would promote his own, hey?
No, you'd think if he was intentionally going to promote any team, he'd explain why.

Stumps, the vast majority of the time, you are pretty spot on with your posting. However here, I think you're letting your other feelings about Skindog get in the way.
Bullshit. As somebody who has extensive experience running basketball fantasy leagues, both in rotisserie and other formats, I'm just calling it as I see it for the betterment of the overall competition. My "other feelings about Skindog" are that I like him and think he's a nice guy who may tend to over-moderate at times, but with whom I get on great in real life. If anything, I'm failing to let my feelings get in the way, and honestly posting what I think regardless of whether it might piss him off.

[pilonv1]

Hey I worked my way into Div 1 fairly. 8)

[jesuc jexus]

moonshadow is getting bent over the pommel horse right now

[Cousin Of Topcat]

Anyone wanna take a punt on Horvath for the rest of the year?

[jesuc jexus]

i'll trade you some naval lint